Do JE pistons work well with boost?
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Do JE pistons work well with boost?
I was about to buy this SRP + Eagle rod combo for $750
http://realstreetperformance.com/sto...d16y8-333.html
But then I found this JE piston + Eagle rod combo for $684
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/je-10...i-d16y8-1.html
What concerned me is in the description it says "Thick ring lands for limited nitrous oxide/forced induction use on low compression pistons."
Do they mean limited use with forced induction? That doesn't seem right unless they were made for N/A setups specifically. Figured I better ask before purchasing.
Thanks
Malcolm
http://realstreetperformance.com/sto...d16y8-333.html
But then I found this JE piston + Eagle rod combo for $684
http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/je-10...i-d16y8-1.html
What concerned me is in the description it says "Thick ring lands for limited nitrous oxide/forced induction use on low compression pistons."
Do they mean limited use with forced induction? That doesn't seem right unless they were made for N/A setups specifically. Figured I better ask before purchasing.
Thanks
Malcolm
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
Ahh good to know. Thanks man. Their comment about "limited use with nitrous/forced induction" is nothing to worry about? seems like an odd comment to put on there. I may see if I can call them or get in touch with them via email and see what they say.
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 40.201N, 77.189W, PA
Posts: 4,738
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
4 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
JE is fine. Those in particular are limited use for those purposes because of the 4032 aluminum alloy. Typically, those aren't made for super strenuous conditions. The 2600 series is.
Next steps:
Find out from Real Street what material the SRPs are.
Tell us what torque/power are you looking to make.
Next steps:
Find out from Real Street what material the SRPs are.
Tell us what torque/power are you looking to make.
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
JE is fine. Those in particular are limited use for those purposes because of the 4032 aluminum alloy. Typically, those aren't made for super strenuous conditions. The 2600 series is.
Next steps:
Find out from Real Street what material the SRPs are.
Tell us what torque/power are you looking to make.
Next steps:
Find out from Real Street what material the SRPs are.
Tell us what torque/power are you looking to make.
I'm only running 10 lbs of boost right now and realistically in the future I don't see myself going over 300 whp as this is more a fun daily driver for me and I don't want to be chasing the next weakest link IE broken transmission, shafts etc. I'm going for the peppy daily driver with a little kick.
While speaking to Real Street they also highly advised I do not go with the 10.5:1. They said unless I'm running C16 or E85 I'll be loosing HP because of the amount of timing I have to pull. He said honestly loose a little mpg and go with the 9.0:1 and I'll make a lot more HP on the high side.
#6
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
srp is je's budget piston... they don't have a lot of the features the je's hve such as gas ports and such and the je's are made out of a better alloy than the srp;s etc
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
I didn't like them or je pistons in general. I have been very happy with my latest build that uses wiseco pistons and crower rods. A few $ is irrelevant for internals. If you do go srp/je make sure to go loose with the ptw clearances. Scuff is a bitch.
Trending Topics
#8
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
the vg30dett i picked up had je pistons in it... 600hp and when i pulled them out htey looked great, no scuffing and they had no top damage, ringland damage or anything.
tops cleaned up like new
the piston on the left was the dirtiest out of the 6... middle is what they looked like after i got the carbon off. right was after deburring and breaking all of the edges and polishing the piston... look brand new
tops cleaned up like new
the piston on the left was the dirtiest out of the 6... middle is what they looked like after i got the carbon off. right was after deburring and breaking all of the edges and polishing the piston... look brand new
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
Thanks for all the info guys. The particular JE pistons I was looking at were a 4023 alloy and not the strongest. I ended up spending a little extra and getting a set of CP pistons made of 2618 alloy. Might be overkill but can't go wrong with a little stronger piston
Last edited by MalcolmV8; 09-16-2012 at 06:34 AM.
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
im running je pistons for the last 60K+ with no problems aside from the usual cold engine piston slap they take a pretty good beating....good pistons and you wont have any issues once tuned correctly.
if i had to do it all over again i would use a 4023 alloy piston for my street engine...the cold engine noise is getting annoying especially when it gets very cold, it sounds like a mid 90's VW diesel for a good 5min after startup.
if i had to do it all over again i would use a 4023 alloy piston for my street engine...the cold engine noise is getting annoying especially when it gets very cold, it sounds like a mid 90's VW diesel for a good 5min after startup.
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
I was thinking if I ran tighter clearance I'd have no noise but if the piston alloy dictates that then I'd send these 2618 alloys back and get 4023 if they're quiet. Like I said daily driver so that'd get old fast.
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
4032 is more than fine for what most people need. I'm running Mahle 4032 alloy pistons in my setup and I have no worry about them what so ever. All out race engine 2618, street engine 4032...
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
I did some googling and found this.
Humm I was always under the impression it was just how you had the machine shop setup your piston to wall clearance as to whether you'd have piston slap or not. I did not realize the different alloys required different clearances like that. I guess I'll send back the CPs and get a 4023 alloy piston as I'll probably never reach their limits realistically and would benefit daily from no piston slap and quite cold starts etc.
So, I have seen alot of misinformation on other forums about the differences and which is best to use for what application. Some forums have members that believe the 2618 is the only choice for any FI, and 4032 is for N/a; which is not close to the truth.
Basically in a nut shell, 4032 has higher silicon content which makes it harder and expands less under heat-meaning you can run tighter piston to wall clearances, better wear and less noise, longer life. However, the tensile strength is not as strong as 2618 which means 2618 can handle detonation better. THis is where the misinformation comes from. The reality is that a 4032 piston is actually very strong and will hold up to detonation much much better than a stock cast piston. They are good for turbo applications, but if max power is what you are after, then 2618 is probably the better choice. So where is the point that you should choose 2618 over 4032? That is debated everywhere, but with about a 12% less tensile strength, it is likely only around 12% less power than 2618. So, If a 2618 piston is rated at 1200hp, the 4032 should be able to hold 1000 hp with the same effectiveness. But no matter what, any piston has the chance to melt down/crack/break apart with a bad tune.
Basically in a nut shell, 4032 has higher silicon content which makes it harder and expands less under heat-meaning you can run tighter piston to wall clearances, better wear and less noise, longer life. However, the tensile strength is not as strong as 2618 which means 2618 can handle detonation better. THis is where the misinformation comes from. The reality is that a 4032 piston is actually very strong and will hold up to detonation much much better than a stock cast piston. They are good for turbo applications, but if max power is what you are after, then 2618 is probably the better choice. So where is the point that you should choose 2618 over 4032? That is debated everywhere, but with about a 12% less tensile strength, it is likely only around 12% less power than 2618. So, If a 2618 piston is rated at 1200hp, the 4032 should be able to hold 1000 hp with the same effectiveness. But no matter what, any piston has the chance to melt down/crack/break apart with a bad tune.
The 4032 alloy has a higher silicon content which translates into less thermal expansion and therefore a more snug fit, which means a quieter piston that is more smog friendly as compared to 2618. The tradeoff is that it's less ductile and brings reduced ability to withstand detonation. The 4032 alloy is great for OEM applications, and its better service life is a more appropriate fit for long term warranties.
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
If your engine builder uses the supplied tolerances the engine will likely fail prematurely. Make sure they know what they are doing.
You can't slap a hp number on a set of pistons based on an alloy. It doesn't work that way.
You can't slap a hp number on a set of pistons based on an alloy. It doesn't work that way.
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
As for certain alloys why can you not rate them? Isn't that how almost anything works? A softer metal withstands less pressure or hp on it and a stronger metal will take more? I'm not sure what you're getting at here?
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
So I figured I'd just use a local machine shop. He's an older guy that's been doing this his whole life so he at least knows how to use his tools lol. But I did ask him if he's ever machined a block and girdle for rod clearance on the Hondas and he said yes he's done those before so at least I won't be his first.
#18
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
HP creates heat which causes thermal expansion of the pistons. Pistons rarely fail due to some set hp limit. Poor tuning and improper installation are way more common.
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 40.201N, 77.189W, PA
Posts: 4,738
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
4 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
The used, 2618 JE's I just put in my engine are very quiet at start up actually. P2W is .0038" with ring end gaps at .018" and .021". Only looking for 400 whp which is what I previously made on the OEM pistons. I only replaced them because of a cracked ring land on one.
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
I called and changed my order to SRP pistons made of 4032 so I won't have piston slap. I only plan on around 300 whp at most for this daily cruiser so I should be just fine.
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
Nobody is arguing Just trying to reinforce factual info.
I have some experience with measuring piston wear using a ruby tipped CMM and feel JE could do a better job with overall piston shape. I did some work with Wiseco and saw the improvements they made first hand based on a long term study we conducted on used NASCAR pistons at my University so I am sorta biased. I do feel its a better piston but as long as your engine builder is communicating and understands what he needs to do to your engine in regards to the installation any of them will work just fine.
No need for the alloy you picked up but no need to send it back either.
Whatever you do... polish the tops like WantBoost did. They come sharp and are a fuse for detonation but be careful not to go to far, you don't want that area becoming too thin or it just does the same thing.
I have some experience with measuring piston wear using a ruby tipped CMM and feel JE could do a better job with overall piston shape. I did some work with Wiseco and saw the improvements they made first hand based on a long term study we conducted on used NASCAR pistons at my University so I am sorta biased. I do feel its a better piston but as long as your engine builder is communicating and understands what he needs to do to your engine in regards to the installation any of them will work just fine.
No need for the alloy you picked up but no need to send it back either.
Whatever you do... polish the tops like WantBoost did. They come sharp and are a fuse for detonation but be careful not to go to far, you don't want that area becoming too thin or it just does the same thing.
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
I've never polished the top of any piston I've ever installed but then again they've always been real smooth on purchase with no burs. I will be sure and check these and see how they look.
You mentioned above if I have the machine shop bored my block to the specs provided by the piston manufacture they will fail. Can you elaborate on that? I would think their guidelines are best to follow since they manufacture their pistons.
I've mostly built fords 4.6 mod motor so that's what I'm most familiar with but when purchasing aftermarket pistons for those they always came with a card that said if this is a N/A motor use X piston to wall clearance, if it's boosted u use X and if nitrous X and so forth. They give you pretty good guidelines. Are you saying these are not good to follow?
Non the less when my SRPs arrive I'll post up what the card says and see what you think before I head to the machine shop.
You mentioned above if I have the machine shop bored my block to the specs provided by the piston manufacture they will fail. Can you elaborate on that? I would think their guidelines are best to follow since they manufacture their pistons.
I've mostly built fords 4.6 mod motor so that's what I'm most familiar with but when purchasing aftermarket pistons for those they always came with a card that said if this is a N/A motor use X piston to wall clearance, if it's boosted u use X and if nitrous X and so forth. They give you pretty good guidelines. Are you saying these are not good to follow?
Non the less when my SRPs arrive I'll post up what the card says and see what you think before I head to the machine shop.
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: 40.201N, 77.189W, PA
Posts: 4,738
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
4 Posts
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?
I've never polished the top of any piston I've ever installed but then again they've always been real smooth on purchase with no burs. I will be sure and check these and see how they look.
You mentioned above if I have the machine shop bored my block to the specs provided by the piston manufacture they will fail. Can you elaborate on that? I would think their guidelines are best to follow since they manufacture their pistons.
I've mostly built fords 4.6 mod motor so that's what I'm most familiar with but when purchasing aftermarket pistons for those they always came with a card that said if this is a N/A motor use X piston to wall clearance, if it's boosted u use X and if nitrous X and so forth. They give you pretty good guidelines. Are you saying these are not good to follow?
Non the less when my SRPs arrive I'll post up what the card says and see what you think before I head to the machine shop.
You mentioned above if I have the machine shop bored my block to the specs provided by the piston manufacture they will fail. Can you elaborate on that? I would think their guidelines are best to follow since they manufacture their pistons.
I've mostly built fords 4.6 mod motor so that's what I'm most familiar with but when purchasing aftermarket pistons for those they always came with a card that said if this is a N/A motor use X piston to wall clearance, if it's boosted u use X and if nitrous X and so forth. They give you pretty good guidelines. Are you saying these are not good to follow?
Non the less when my SRPs arrive I'll post up what the card says and see what you think before I head to the machine shop.
Speak to some professionals in your area regarding what they commonly do for those pistons. Most people will be more than glad to share that bit of info with you for P2W clearance with a certain piston in a street car.
And def just scuff the tops with a Scotch Brite pad unless they've been de-polished from the factory. You don't want them to be shiny.
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Do JE pistons work well with boost?