I have a built GSR block, sleeved by Benson, stepped deck. Stock, unmilled GSR head. Stock crank pulley, cams and cam gears. For the life of me I cant get the timing belt to line up. Its a new OEM belt. I stake the cams at TDC with 5mm dowels. I set the crank pulley to TDC and pull the timing belt up to the exhaust cam gear. The belt ribs do not match up with the cam teeth. It is about half a cam tooth off.

Ive redone this about 50+ times. Everytime it comes out the same. When the cam gears line up the crank is about 4* after TDC. Thats the only way to line up the belt with the cam teeth. Ive changed timing belts on at least 2 Hondas. I know how to do it right. Something else is screwed up here.

They tell me my deck was milled .003" but that shouldnt even be noticable. What else could cause it to be misalingned?

Cam gears perfectly aligned at TDC.


And this is where the crank ends up with the cam gears at TDC.


***Update***
Got adjustable cam gears. Having problems lining everything up.


Modified by Muckman at 1:45 PM 9/22/2004

 

OEM head gasket?Thicker or thinner gasket will change timing too.
Glenn

 

run the part number, be 100% certain you have the right belt before you go any further

 

Its a GE bored OEM head gasket. Should be stock thickness.

I confirmed the timing belt part number with my dealer. 14400-P72-014 It appears to be the right one.

I dont get it. Either Im a retard and cant do a timing belt right, which is doubtful. Or alot more was taken off the deck than previously thought.

 

***Pictures added***

Tell me what you think.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its a GE bored OEM head gasket. Should be stock thickness.

I confirmed the timing belt part number with my dealer. 14400-P72-014 It appears to be the right one.

I dont get it. Either Im a retard and cant do a timing belt right, which is doubtful. Or alot more was taken off the deck than previously thought.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just 2x checked the part number. thats correct.

 

did you tension it correctly?

 

Cam gears perfectly aligned at TDC.



Get a piece of paper and line up the marks on the outside of the cam gears to create a perfectly even line across. When you have those lined up, you know you are el correcto. Since you used the 5mm dowel pins though you should be within spec. I always use the outer ticks as a reference since I am extra **** about doing timing belts.

And this is where the crank ends up with the cam gears at TDC.

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My guess is when you go to install the intake part of the timing belt the spring is going under tension and causing your crank to rotate. Make sure you install it in this order:
1)crank
2)tensioner
3)water pump
4)exhaust cam
5)intake cam

When you pull it over the intake cam, hold the crank pulley with your hand so it does not roate while you are putting the belt on the intake cam. I know sometimes when you run a new spring tensioner they like to rotate the crank when installing the intake cam. You may need a friend to keep it stationary since the motor is in the car.

 

It took me so many times to do my timing belt. I finally just followed the helms book and I got it

 

The only way I've ever been able to get it right is by putting a wrench on the cam gear bolt and manually turning the gear that half-of-a-tooth to get the belt on.

 

Thanks for all the responses guys. Ive been doing it in the exact order PrecisionH23a said to. The cam gears are at perfect TDC. The teeth just dont line up to make both crank and cams lined up at TDC.

Ive had 2 other Honda friends attempt it with the same results. Ive done Timing belts on 2 other hondas and Ive never had this hard this much trouble. I really dont think Im doing it wrong.

Plus If you look at how much the crank is off. Thats not even a tooth. Each tooth of the crank is like +/- 10*. And after adjusting tension (by the book) it doesnt get any better.

Do you guys still think Im putting it on wrong or do I need cam gears?
If I was doing it wrong Id expected it to be different everytime. But each time its exactly consistent in the same spot.

 

The crank is rotating once the tensioner gets tension when you attempt to put the belt on the intake cam.

 

Have you verified you're using a VTEC water pump? Just a thought.


It looks like the crank gear is ending up half a tooth off. Just eyballin'.

 

why not start the crank, that much farther from top dead center, then when you get tension and it rotates it matches up...

 

wait, are you sure teh cam gears are supposed to line up like that?

i thought that since the head is actually angled forward, for the cams to be at true tdc they will need to be a few degrees forward.

that make sense?

 

When you have the belt installed as in the pictures, turn the crank back to TDC, and take another picture of how far the cam gears moved. My setup has always been a little off, but when I do this, it looks close enough for me, and I'm damned ****.

 

Was your head milled any ? if so, how much ?

Set your valve lash as well, it makes a difference....just use the cam gears to adjust the valves and see if it helps any.

stan

 

DSF - yes its a brand new GSR water pump and tensioner. I verified with my vendor.

The problem isnt on that side its on the exhaust cam side. If you think about it there is a certain distance between the exhaust cam and the crank and that needs to interval with the teeth on the timing belt exactly or it misaligns. And I found that tension made no difference on the alignment of the cams and crank as i could turn the engine over and it would still line it up the same (same when it was tightened too of course).

93turbo16 - if tried backing off the crank that much. but the teeth wont line up then. ya see each tooth on the crank equals like 10+ degrees. the next tooth interval is around the ignition timing mark which is about 16* BTDC.

servion - when i put the crank at Tdc the cams are exactly half a tooth off.

bob dc2 - thats how you line up the cam gears. Those marks are called the TDC marks. Using the up arrows is not as accurate and tricky as the engine is tilted forward so they wouldnt be straight up. when was the last time u read the helms?

stan - i havent set the valve lash yet. i intend to try that this weekend.
My head isnt milled, any just my deck. But we dont know how much it was milled for sure bc it was not logged! Im beginning to believe alot more than .003"

its not my fault!

 

well just run it without the timing belt... haha

 

actually i am not sure if you knew what i meant, start with the crank pulley off set and when you tigten the belt it should turn the pulley to the TDC mark..

 

Well, either the head is sitting closer to the crank for some unknown reason...or you're putting the timing belt on wrong. If it's half a tooth off, something is wrong. If it's a full tooth...well...that's self explanitory. Take the pulley off, take the timing covers off and use the TDC mark on the block and crank gear. Only way to see exactly what's going on.

 

Right, after redoing this so many times and having other people do it and still being unable to set it right thats the only conclusion. It was decked alot more than .003". I really didnt want to have to spend $200 on cam gears just so I can get it back to stock.

 

Yep. There are only two possible explinations.
The timing belt is stretched, or
the head or block is decked a little much.

 

I have the same problem from the 2 motor I put together. The cam gear TDC but not the crank pulley. I took off the crank pulley and timing belt cover. The cam gear was at TDC. The crank sprocket was also at TDC(crank sprocket marking was lined up with the marking on the oil pump). For some reason, I couldn't get the crank pulley at TDC.

 

Maybe your lower timing belt cover was off a little bit throwing the TDC mark on the cover off? I thought about this possibility but shortly ruled it out by dropping a long stick on my #1 piston to establish true TDC and the cover was accurate.