jhojhet

I have a stock d16y8 making 200hp to the wheel. I'm now upgrading to 16g stage 3 ported turbo and wanted to know how much HP this type of engine can handle without doing further modification such as piston and rods.

boost ben

Most say about 240whp. But there are tons of other factors, mostly in the tune. If you were to run about 240 whp I would recomend gettig ARP headstuds at a minimum.

jhojhet

Thank you all for the reply...

Yes, ARP stud is installed.

I have big 16g stage 3 job that will be installed over the weekend. I'm planning to install a boost controller as well and set it to 10lbs.

Future upgrade will be piston and rods.. Any suggestion which one would be the right choice for my set up?

boost ben

Vitara pistons are becoming the standard in budget builds. I have a set now that I bought off of FJT and a set of the custom I-beams and both together were around $400. A basic build for 300+ hp shouldn't run much more then $1200-$1700.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boost ben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vitara pistons are becoming the standard in budget builds. I have a set now that I bought off of FJT and a set of the custom I-beams and both together were around $400. A basic build for 300+ hp shouldn't run much more then $1200-$1700.</TD></TR></TABLE>

To just build the bottom end? I certainly hope you aren't spending that much to build your bottom end. $1,200??

boost ben

Are you saying that $1200 is too high or low?

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boost ben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you saying that $1200 is too high or low? </TD></TR></TABLE>

To spend on just building the engine alone? Thats rediculously high...

boost ben

You have to remember that when you do "rods and pistons" it takes a lot more then just rods and pistons. I built my block with vitaras, custom I-beams, ACL bearings, gasket set, <U>NEW OEM</U> water pump, oil pump, rear main seal, timing belt, and tensioner. The head has a Delta 272, and a megan 6 bolt cam gear. Both the block and the head were hot tanked and decked. The head has a valve job and the block received a simple hone and crank micro polish. Everything together has been $1879.67 CND after tax, duty, and shipping.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boost ben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have to remember that when you do "rods and pistons" it takes a lot more then just rods and pistons. I built my block with vitaras, custom I-beams, ACL bearings, gasket set, <U>NEW OEM</U> water pump, oil pump, rear main seal, timing belt, and tensioner. The head has a Delta 272, and a megan 6 bolt cam gear. Both the block and the head were hot tanked and decked. The head has a valve job and the block received a simple hone and crank micro polish. Everything together has been $1879.67 CND after tax, duty, and shipping.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have been building Honda engines specifically for 10 years now. I am aware of the costs involved and what is involved to do simply "pistons and rods". It sounds like you spent a lot on labor and machine work... some of which I would argue was not necessary. Block decking should only be done if the deck surface is warped. Decking for the hell of it is going to mess with your cam/crank timing some and always change the piston to deck height. Two things I would do my best to avoid if possible. The head should also only be surfaced as needed. Again it will mess with cam/crank timing and also raise compression slightly. I bought my vitaras for $140 shipped, with rings. My custom length rods ran me $290 shipped. My ACL's were a total of $60 and thats for the rods/mains/thrust. I had my block honed over to 75.5mm to dial in the piston to sidewall clearance and my crank polished for $150 out the door. So far, $640 into the bottom end and I am pretty much golden for a solid 400whp setup. Keep in mind I do all my own assembly so I will save a good deal on labor. You also don't need to just replace things because "new is always better". Inspect your oil pump and confirm its bad, don't just replace it. Same goes with the water pump and tensioner. Too many people just throw money away thinking that something must be replaced because "new is better". This isn't the case. Its quite possible to build a very strong and reliable D series bottom end for less then $1,200, easy. Hell, I did that several times using B series bottom ends...

jhojhet

What would be the ideal piston pick and compression ratio when building a 300whp ?

I'm currently shopping for connecting rod as well. Any suggestion?

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jhojhet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What would be the ideal piston pick and compression ratio when building a 300whp ?

I'm currently shopping for connecting rod as well. Any suggestion?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whats "ideal" all depends on your goals and your budget. For 300whp I would get some Vitaras. $140 shipped with rings, proven to hold over 400whp. In fact, the most I have seen is 471whp with these pistons. Rods, get em from FJT. You can get custom length rods that will move the Vitaras back up the cylinder where they need to be for $300 shipped.

boost ben

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have been building Honda engines specifically for 10 years now. I am aware of the costs involved and what is involved to do simply "pistons and rods". It sounds like you spent a lot on labor and machine work... some of which I would argue was not necessary. Block decking should only be done if the deck surface is warped. Decking for the hell of it is going to mess with your cam/crank timing some and always change the piston to deck height. Two things I would do my best to avoid if possible. The head should also only be surfaced as needed. Again it will mess with cam/crank timing and also raise compression slightly. I bought my vitaras for $140 shipped, with rings. My custom length rods ran me $290 shipped. My ACL's were a total of $60 and thats for the rods/mains/thrust. I had my block honed over to 75.5mm to dial in the piston to sidewall clearance and my crank polished for $150 out the door. So far, $640 into the bottom end and I am pretty much golden for a solid 400whp setup. Keep in mind I do all my own assembly so I will save a good deal on labor. You also don't need to just replace things because "new is always better". Inspect your oil pump and confirm its bad, don't just replace it. Same goes with the water pump and tensioner. Too many people just throw money away thinking that something must be replaced because "new is better". This isn't the case. Its quite possible to build a very strong and reliable D series bottom end for less then $1,200, easy. Hell, I did that several times using B series bottom ends... </TD></TR></TABLE>


I still don't think $1200 is too high of a price. It would be irresponsible not to over budget since issues my arise that can't be foreseen, such as warped head/block, scored cylinder walls, heavily scored crank requiring OEM replacement bearings. Not replacing the water pump is asking for trouble down the road. Why build a "new" engine and reuse such a vital part. I don't disagree that it can be done for cheaper but suggesting that you can build a 400whp D-series for much less then $1200 is misleading to the OP.

To the OP: Vitaras and FJT rods will be sufficient for your needs, but keep in mind that the little things add up....

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boost ben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I still don't think $1200 is too high of a price. It would be irresponsible not to over budget since issues my arise that can't be foreseen, such as warped head/block, scored cylinder walls, heavily scored crank requiring OEM replacement bearings. Not replacing the water pump is asking for trouble down the road. Why build a "new" engine and reuse such a vital part. I don't disagree that it can be done for cheaper but suggesting that you can build a 400whp D-series for much less then $1200 is misleading to the OP.

To the OP: Vitaras and FJT rods will be sufficient for your needs, but keep in mind that the little things add up....</TD></TR></TABLE>

If the seal in the water pump is good, why replace it? Its going to start weeping when the seal is worn. They don't just "give up the ghost" and die completely. There are plenty of signs that are present prior to a pump failure. I don't think its that much of a gamble to check the seal and run the pump if its good...

The oil pump you can disassemble and inspect. If its in good shape and has the right clearances then a new pump isn't going to be any better..

While I might agree that one can certainly over budget, I am simply trying to point out that the cost is not going to be quite as high as you have made it out to be. OEM replacement bearings BTW won't help you on a "heavily scored" crankshaft. You would need to have the crank ground and run oversize bearings. The cost of grinding the crank would exceed the cost of finding another Y8 to work with

CRXdan

I can see reusing the oil pump, they either work or dont, but the water pump, a $50 item at most that will save you a ton of hassle if it does go out. I mean alot of guys buy scrap d16s that burn oil or high milage blocks to "build". You really think its a good idea to be reusing a water pump? And how do you check the seals? Look at it visually and give it a go/no? Whats next, reuse the old timing belt that came with the motor and have it snap?
Unless you have the servioce history or you just recentley replaced the items I woudlnt cut corners like that.

CRXdan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid96EK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Whats "ideal" all depends on your goals and your budget. For 300whp I would get some Vitaras. $140 shipped with rings, proven to hold over 400whp. In fact, the most I have seen is 471whp with these pistons. Rods, get em from FJT. You can get custom length rods that will move the Vitaras back up the cylinder where they need to be for $300 shipped.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This isnt necesarily a good thing for pump gas according to some, and I belive it. Check out the pump gas sohc thread. I woudl much rather have low compression vitaras with stock length rods and run more boost to make the power. The only advantage to the FJT rods i can see is off boost drivability is better. Who cares. Youre building the motor for boost and boost only.