UK Accord

Since I have been using Crome software to map my car with I have always had a few niggly problems with it.


1. On cold starts after the choke had gone off but before the car had reached operating temp the idle used to hunt, only lasted a matter of minutes but still annoying.

2. Backing off the accelarator in gear used to be a juddery affair and not very smooth especially in the lower gears.


Anyway I had a look at alternative software after the problems couldn't be sorted out with Crome and kept reading things about Ectune.

After reading up on the software I contacted the only UK tuner of this software Romain @ ARTech Tuning and discussed my concerns with him. He was 99% sure the problems could be ironed out with using the Ectune software so I went down yesterday to have my car remapped.

Even with just the basemap installed the car seemed smoother and after an hour or so street tuning I was happy with the results so far. Then it was off to the dyno for 4hrs of dyno tuning.


Well the end result is the problems have now gone and the car is making more power. At the end we swapped back over the Crome ECU and did back to back runs on 7, 10 & 13 psi.

The car is making upto 25 more hp in places on high boost and nearly 40lbs of torque :shock:

Even on low boost there are gains of upto 20hp and 20lbft torque.



So I'm more then happy with the trip down there, the main objective was to cure the two niggly porblems but the fact the car is also making more power in the midrange and more torque all over is a bonus.

So a big thumbs up to Artech Tuning.

Here are the graphs,

13psi




10psi



7psi

92redhatch

Ya ectune is great.

sgnlab

So explain to me how it makes more power??? I dont understand how it would do that I mean its not the program its the tune... you dont think the numbers shown from ectune cant be done with crome???

and dont get me wrongI hate both of these programs equally and would never use them on my own car so dont think I like eithe or. Just laughing @ the fact you think one or another program can make any more power than another.

92redhatch

Its just over all less of a head ache. And it doesnt add timing where you dont want it like crome. So its easier to tune. Theres also more options then crome. (from what ive heard)

UK Accord

I'm sure those numbers probably can be made using Crome, I just think its easier to use then Crome so the numbers are made more easily.

The idle and decel problems were the main point to the thread.

taggart_lumpy

ectune

marcj

idle and decel problems came from lean conditions in those areas of the map.. (ie. 24"-18" at 2-4k rpm)

as stated above, eCtune holds your hand through the process, but the same can be done with crome. there is also a timing fix plugin for crome free for the timing retard.

Hyundata, Crome, eCtune, etc. all "piggyback" on the stock Honda ecu, therefore they will run the same with the given numbers at a certain interval if they are setup exactly the same.

It would be a good comparison if you were showing the benefits from running an individual coil pack "stand alone" EMS to the chipped ecu EMS, like crome.

b20beast83

eCtune ftw

Hybrid96EK

This information is true however the problem is that people seem to overlook that the coding of the program has a large effect on the end result... Example, say one program says "to modify the idle, you need to look at block 21" where as the other program states "to modify the idle, you need to look at block 20". Its a rough example but you can see my point. You can code programs all day long but if you are not CORRECTLY making changes to parameters or you modify the wrong one, adverse effects can and will happen. For this very reason, its quite possible to go from something that is working half *** to something that works correctly and pick up power.

cticknor666

ive never had a problem with crome, its really all in the tuner...

Hybrid96EK

I used Crome for quite some time... since back before it was even Crome and John still had Cuddle as his datalogging program. I'm not saying you can't get the job done... ectune however gets the job done, correctly, and then some, in far less time. Thats all I am saying.

Turbogixxer

Right, most people I see say this, have never tuned a other system outside of crome or are hard headed.

Think about this for a minute. Neptune, ECtune, Hondata do a great amount of R&D on their products. I can not speak on how much R&D ECtune does, but I know Neptune and Hondata go out of their way to make sure the product is correct.

I was a tester for the Crome Gold. After testing for that and dealing with problems with it still, I made the swtich to Neptune. After that, I tested the ACUTAL timing of Hondata, Neptune, and Crome (gold and "free"). Guess which one did horrible (remind you on the same car)? Crome. The timing was EVERYWHERE.

So, I have real data crome is buggy, I also have real world tuning that says it is.

Anyone that is thinking about paying for crome, Look over your options. Neptune, ECtune, and hondata are CHEAP for what you are getting.

marcj

I agree. I would NEVER suggest anyone paying for crome when eCtune is such a good alternative for a few extra bucks.

for the budget guys that spend their paycheck on a solid built motor, we tend to cut cost as much as possible as long as it works. Hondata will never get a penny from me because of the whole pgmfi.org battle.

HiProfile

Looks like money well spent. Squeezing that much more out just by changing the EMS is always great.


But since both take HUGE cues from stock code (and I mean biggest they can legally take, and then some!), the way they use the stock hardware is virtually the same. Its how they allow you to interface with the hardware that makes a big difference.

Apparently I'm one of the few who can speak from both sides of the issue (no "I heard" or "I think", only "I've experienced"). I've had big injectors idle perfect with crome, ectune, and uberdata, and had INITIAL idle issues with all. The surging idle is generally from some sort of vac leak - ectune does allow finer control & faster response so it can deal with it. Crome just requires there to be less mechanical issues, or you'll have to do more to electronicly combat those mechanical issues you failed to fix.

The main difference is Crome primarly used direct rom-hacking as the basis for ems requirements, while ectune used Crome, Uberdata, Hondata, Neptune, and even OBD0 ems's to figure out what users could benifit from.


When you do a cost-benefit analysis, Crome will always hang near the top. However its days as the best inexpensive solution are definately over.

Bailhatch

How does everyone pronounce 'ectune' anyway? I have tuned about 20 different EMSs and for $200 the functionality and ease of use of crome is fantastic for me so far. No connection issues, no bugs, and lots of useful features. I can't beleive I ran my car on Uberdata for 20k miles haha.

marcj

^ "e-c-tune"

b20beast83

It should be called E-Z-Tune

Bugermass

Actually, there are big differences in how these programs work. We've been finding more and more bugs with stock honda code when using it in ways it wasn't intended to be used that cause various issues. A large majority of the original stock honda code/routines were re-written in eCtune to address these issues. And this process continues as we find more things that don't work 100% correctly. Just recently calvin found a pretty huge bug with a certain section of honda code that hondata, neptune, and crome havn't caught onto yet.. We spent alot of time testing and re-writing and looking at how real stand-alone EMSs handle things and have tried to write code and features that make the honda ECU as close as possible to what a full standalone offers.

Were also about to release some hardware that will allow some other neat stuff to be done with eCtune. I've used crome, and hondata, they all have their place and can do the job, but overall I think eCtune has the best support, the most tools/features available to the user, and the most stable fuel and timing routines.. I can't speak for neptune cause I don't have first hand experience with it.

Since the beggining eCtune has been built on the ideas, concepts, and hard work of a hand full of talented programmers, and engineering minded tuners and I think thats enabled us to make a great product.

I tune all kinds of makes and models and a variety of EMSs, and I wish they all had the same toolset that eCtune has cause it makes tuning so much faster and easier.

raene

I keep hearing vague reports of "bugs" that eCtune's fixing as compared to Crome and Neptune, but I have no idea what they are. Personally, I think that if you're going to say another piece of software has a bug, you should actually say where it has a bug. Just saying the software's "buggy" and putting out a dire warning about how no other tuning software has found it doesn't really say much. For instance, if it's the buggy handling of the MAP sensor cutoff, or how having the leftmost column have a scalar of higher than the minimum MAP value causes the fuel values to wrap to the highest fuel values in the map, that would be good to know.

I dunno, just looking for a little real "tech" in the discussion and also still considering eCtune or Neptune... looking for solid answers. Feels like since the creation of eCtune no one's willing to share EMS info anymore... probably because all the knowledgeable people went to help out with eCtune, hehe

Bailhatch

You can read the specifics of what has been fixed on the ectune forum. I read almost all of them and it was pretty interesting. You will see that many of them are fixed in very short order. I have yet to encounter any problems except for a couple spelling or gramatical errors in ectune. To call it "buggy" kind of implies that it's riddled with problems right? I can't tell any difference between this and something like motec or aem...except price. I'm sure neptune is good too, I don't have any experience though.

HRTuning

Is he going through my code or is it something that you've verified is an issue with NepTune? I've rewritten quite a bit of stock code to get it to the point it is today.

I guess I'll retract my previous question, unless you know that Calvin has been taking apart my code.

ProjectBB6

iTrader: (1)

All I know is Howard at RLZ speaks very highly of Crome and tunes the majority of his cars on it. I believe he also had a hand in Tony Palo's 8 second Integra.

LightningTeg

Switching from Crome to eCtune was the probably the best money i've spent on my car. Crome was buggy, it crashed alot, didnt do what I wanted it to do, yadayada. If theres a problem with eCtune, it gets resolved by the next patch (which is every 2 weeks usually).

Its easy to use, theres tons of feautures, the tech support is bar none, and its cheap. Hondata is old news and way overpriced.

d112crzy

I've never had a single problem getting any car to idle. I've tuned on stock to 880cc injectors without issues. Cold idle issue on Crome is tuner error. It sucks having to go through all the bs, but it CAN be done there's just a little more work involved. Most tuners choose not to deal with these "bugs" and quickly jump and call Crome garbage. Crome is decent for the price, more so if you use Crome Free along with freelog.

Either way, great numbers. I saw this dyno posted on the eCtune forum yesterday.

Tony the Tiger

Most guys on here will vaguely describe both systems...

We have to set something straight here first before this discussion turns to crap again... Quite frankly, I have actually tuned a Greddy E-manage Blue on a Honda upwards of 450 WHP. Does that mean E-manage is awesome? Nope, having a system making power does not determine an accurate and reliable tuning platform. We should all know this by now

For all the folks here who are into this debate of chipped OBD-I tuning programs, I will share my findings..

I have done VERY basic tests... All I did was this:

Test car --> Honda Civic all motor track car B16B, 10.5:1 CR, Comp Cams, HyTech Header, Skunk2 IM, and a few other mods. Car makes a healthy 205 WHP.

With almost all the systems out there, one thing I can prove is that an AEM EMS standalone has the ability to keep ignition timing dead on the spot at all RPM ranges, as well as injector duty that actually matches both the software/actual pulsewidths. We all know that the AEM EMS is pretty capable in the Honda world for running the engine right on the spot.

I have transferred all the timing and fuel values onto Crome (with all the current fixes, among a few older versions I used to have, and a newest updated version I freshly downloaded at the time). Bit by bit, I have transferred the entire fuel and timing map onto Crome.

I then did the exact same thing for ECTune, again, transferring all the same timing values and fuel values.

A simple result was all it needed... AEM EMS and ECTune had results that were within +/-2 WHP within each other. The entire HP and TQ curve was identical between AEM and ECTune.

How did Crome do? It made lesser power overall, but had more torque on the low end but less up top. The car ran richer down low and leaner up top as well. Why is it different? Who knows, nor I care why it is different. I just know it is time I move away from Crome and go right to ECTune for every customer that rolls in here.

Common sense tells me that the increase of torque in the low-end is showing higher ignition advance than usual, and lesser ignition advance up at higher RPM. Again, it is indicating a timing control problem although all the fixes claimed to fix it. The fuel issue I have no clue why it is different, but it is no coincidence that you always needed larger injectors than usual to make the same power on Crome vs an AEM for example.

I doubt the timing fix did anything, because if I cannot completely kill the power of an engine when I put in "0" as a timing value when the car is running on my dyno, it means the engine is not physically running at "0" deg anyway. Both the AEM and ECtune can completely bog down the engine, but Crome still lets the engine sing as if it was at 12-13 deg BTDC...

Does Crome do the job? Definitely... Just dodge all the bad stuff, and don't try to use it out of range. If you have a torquey B20 turbo Honda with a GT28RS turbo, stay away from Crome because your motor will ping like no tomorrow when you get 20 PSI of boost at 3000RPM. Time to give'r the ol' distributor a slight turn clockwise to fix that issue