punkracer

hello fellow h-t..

footnote..i am an ASE tech and worked on Hondas for 5+ years, i know how to assemble motors etc...long story short, not going to air out my opinion on this shop just yet, going to let him make right on this....


sleeved golden eagle b18b1 block, threads pulled, brought to local honda shop who has timesert kit...fast forward three months. asselby of motor was performed, 30 mins away from start up...had alternator and fuel lines to connect, was pooring in water in radiator.. to only find it pissing out block.. futher diag, found crack near center intake head bolt hole.. cracked block externaly and internaly into oil.. had wtaer in oil....crack is 4 inches from top of block...

questions....
-should shop pay for new block assembly...?
-can sleeves be re used in a new block?


will have pics up soon. im going to bring motor assembled to shop tonight after i get out of work.. gota saab tb job in bay...ugh.. lol thanks for input in advance...

update* just got back from shop. i told them basically u have liability insurance to take care of these issues....

i have a lawyer who will take care of this for me if need be, but i rather have the shop man up and deal with it.. **** happens and i understand this.. but there saying i cracked the block from installing my head on it.. umm no.. pics will be up in a couple mins..


easyer to see i sprayed block with brake clean, and when i blew it out it stayed in the crack..


this is the worst one... it dribbles out like it has a 1/8th in hole in it..



AND this onein right under the coolant pipe/theromsat housing< which had me chassing a leaking o ring at first...

non-VTEC

find another block.....and unless the machine shop is GE you cant simply swap the sleeves over. GE would have to CNC out the new block for the sleeves. it would probably cost the same to simply have them re-sleeve the new block.

use that engine as a spare...have it aluminium welded where it was cracked?

good luck.

punkracer

ok what should shop do for me? what would be a good deal to except ? new block would be good...

non-VTEC

send it to GE....

they epoxy and press the sleeves in...if any other machine shop attempts to remove the sleeves they might get damaged. plus GE has the cnc program to cut the new block to specs to accept their sleeves. any other machine shop will have to take "guessing" measurements to make those sleeves work and most likely they will not guarantee that they wont sink or leak.

good luck.

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

What don't you understand about his question? He's asking what the shop should do as a result of them damaging the current block.. Should they pay to have new blocked sleeved? I def say they should man up and meet you half way.. Since they were fixing a block that was already damaged they shouldn't replace the block all together.. I mean the threads were already stripped so in essence you'd be coming up if they replaced the block and now you have a block with no stripped bolt holes..

BEfab

I don't see how you could hold the shop responsible for replacing the block. You brought them a trashed block to begin with. You can't expect a shop to give you a new block when what you had was way less than perfect to start out with. I mean what was the total of what you paid the shop anyways? Timeserts are one of those things, many times you get lucky and it works, but at the end of the day it is simply a bandage for a problem. This time it didn't work, and you simply have to do what you would have to do anyways, replace the block.

matt k

they usually crack by the dipstick its rare but it happens mine just happened to do it last weekend throw it away

punkracer

... updated to move into first post..

narfdanarf

I guess I don't understand how it's the shop's problem and how you would expect them to give you anything? At the very most I would ask if you could get a refund on the labor from the timesert install. In the end you had and still do have a useless block your bandaid didn't solve ****.

punkracer

time serts are not a bandaid . i work at a shop myself.. if a broken car comes in and i fix a right wheel and on test drive the wheel falls off the left, even thou i didnt tooch the left wheel. my shop is responsible, that's how a business is operated, thats why we have liability insurance..i just want them to man up and replace the block, send mine out to golden eagle< have them press out my used sleeves and re press into a block that is not ****ed up...

narfdanarf

Your analogy is not your situation. If someone brought a car into your shop with a cracked right wheel and they wanted you to jb weld it so you did and then after they went home the wheel still cracked you would buy them a new wheel?

punkracer

timeserts are like welding a wheel, helicoils are like jb weld..

either way thanks for ur input lol...NEXT....

we will see. basically i file the right paper work, and ill get what i need, look if they had a stock motor hanging around i would take that in trade... but if the sert was installed correctly i would not have this issue..

boostedb20z

iTrader: (1)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
true and why cant this be welded ?? did i miss something weld the crack and be on your way but its not the shops problem.

narfdanarf

If you didn't have a POS block from the beginning you wouldn't have this issue.

shoemaker617

If i was punkracer I would be trying to get my block fixed or replaced. The shop took the job so they're the ones who put on the wedding ring.

95skunkedgsr

how are you helpin at all with this guys problem ??

lsvtecracer

I'm not taking anyone side, but here's how i see it. How can you prove that installing the timesert kit crack the block. It could have crack during the sleeving process or when the thread pull out. It could have crack during shipping as well. You never really got a chance to used the block after it was sleeves so maybe it was crack before the timesert was install. I own a shop myself and will own up to any mistake that we make, but it's hard to prove who's at fault in this situation.

Steve

punkracer

block was in running condition wen it came out of car... only disasembled to re blueprint motor and see all parts, when i did, noticed four headstuds treads were striped, so i brought to this shop to have it serted, then i re assembled and now i have a crack.. there was no shipping of the block< i drove block to him and then i picked up, WHAT IF THREADS WERE NOT CLEANED OUT BEFORE HE PUT THE SERT IN......???????? when i picked up motor i still had to clean the holes, they did have shaving in them...

lsvtecracer

The shaving is from running down the drill bit. I've done it a few times and there's usually a little shaving left. Gotta really blow it out good to get it all out. It sound like the block could have crack when they are running the drill bit down into the hole. I've redone quite a few strip thread and it's kinda hard to crack the block like that. Good luck with your situation. Hope you get everything work out.

Steve

hybrdthry911

excellent analogy to oppose your argument. should the shop be responsible for the left wheel? the answer is no. which is why most people in this thread are saying no the shop is not responsible. most shops will eat it and take care of it to keep a good reputation not because they feel responsible.

unfortunately the block you gave him was junk, he tried to repair it and the block cracked. that is a possibility when doing a timesert!! liability insurance wouldnt pay for this the shop would be paying out of pocket.

cibao2ner

thats the reason i bough a dart block..brand new casting..just spend a lil more get a dart..you can use everything oem..more ridgidd casting, billet main caps dont require a girdle...endyn does all the prep work thats needed and you get a better deal on the block when you get everything done with him...

g-gameslude18

If you asked them to inspect the block then it is their fault. If you did not ask them to do so then your neglect to fully inspect your block has come full circle.

civic2liters

iTrader: (1)

I'm wondering if people missed the part where he said he waited three months after the timeserts were done to assemble the engine? Even if it was their fault, you have to prove that a) the culpability was theirs and b) that somehow you didn't messed it up in that three month time frame in which it was in your possession. Good luck though, I would be upset too if I got my engine back and it was messed up.

Tony the Tiger

The sad truth, because you are dealing with used blocks and used parts, you cannot hold the shop liable for it. They did a "repair" for you, not selling you a repaired part with guarantee.

They did not sell you a block that has a crack on it... That's the key here. It's like as if you were to bring a rare damaged BBS wheel to a rim repair shop, and then bitch about it because the rim was not 100% straight after the repair that had no guarantee.

If they sold you a fully assembled longblock and it is treated as a merchandise, then that's a different story. The factory Honda aluminum casting on the block is weak to start with; now adding timeserts into the equation which means even less surrounding material around the threads. This case is not surprising at all.

It's actually dumb to try to aggressively get the shop to do something about it. Right off the bat, there is no case unless there is a written statement or invoice saying that this block repair was guaranteed 100% or they give you a new block...

I can understand 100% money back guaranteed FOR THE repair job, but not a new block...lol So at most, you can pursue the amount which you paid for installing the timeserts.

Stuff likes this clogs up the justice system.

unusual71

yeah like mentioned by tony, it makes sense that the shop would refund you for the work which they did, which failed, but asking for the block to be replaced is probably a little much. Wouldnt hurt to try though.