PrecisionH23a

So as you guys know... base timing on the d16y8 is 12 degree's whereas the y7's are 16. When tuning (s200b with p28 on obd2 engine/dizzy/car), are you guys running the p28 and setting base ignition advance on the hondata at 12 then running 4 degree's less timing than say with a y7 map? I see some guys are running about 20-22.5 degree's at 11psi but I'm not sure if they are running 12 or 16 as base.

This is the first time I've ever come across this. I figured I would ask before starting to tune the engine. Worst case I'll take 4 degree's out with 12 degrees base timing and go from there.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

From what I have seen, atleast with uber, actually leaving it at 16 in most cases and subtrating 4 degrees off the whole map is what most people do. It is kinda hard to subtract 4 dgrees out of the whole map, might be there for a little bit.

PrecisionH23a

BauleyCivic

What about trying to retard base timing at the distributor (ie, pulling 4 degrees out at the dizzy to compensate for the entire ignition map being 4 degrees advanced)?

I've heard also that OBD-2 distributors somehow always work their way back to 12? Can anyone shed light on this?

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I am pretty sure, you would have to advance the distributor 4 degrees to catch up with the ecu being 4 degrees advanced between the two. I believe the ecu has to do with the timing working its way back to 12, so with an OBD1, ecu it shouldn't be a problem.

EE_Chris

The timing does not work its way down using an OBD2 distributor - not on my stock Y7 anyway. I have the ignition set to 14* and it stays there every time I go to check the timing.

BauleyCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am pretty sure, you would have to advance the distributor 4 degrees to catch up with the ecu being 4 degrees advanced between the two. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Errr, yea you're right. I was just talking out of my ***. Sorry

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EE_Chris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The timing does not work its way down using an OBD2 distributor - not on my stock Y7 anyway. I have the ignition set to 14* and it stays there every time I go to check the timing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okay cool.

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am pretty sure, you would have to advance the distributor 4 degrees to catch up with the ecu being 4 degrees advanced between the two. I believe the ecu has to do with the timing working its way back to 12, so with an OBD1, ecu it shouldn't be a problem. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was wondering this as well... but can you advance an obd2 dizzy to 16 degrees? I'm still a little confused if I should dial in the dizzy to 12 then set hondata base ignition advance to 12 or dial in both to 16.

Once I get this p28 chipped I'll see what happenes...

RyanEJ8

Keep us updated because I'm still having issues with mine.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

Change it in hondata. It is just a pain in the *** to change it because you can't say, change all the values by 4 degrees, only percent.

_Cyclone_

I just adjusted the timing on my Y8 recently, and I had to rotate the dizzy all the way back just to get it to 12 with the stock OBD2 ECU, I don't think it'll go any further without altering the maps.

I asked about this recently and couldn't get an answer. I have a P28 chipped w/S200b, and my tuner recently put a basemap in it and didn't give me a clear answer about this timing question (which I asked.) They kept saying they were going to retard the timing for the turbo... not really the answer I was looking for.

I'm going to install the injectors and OBD1 P28 in two weeks or so, start it up and check the timing with the light again.

BlackCRX

this is a problem that will plague us d16y guys

my uber bin is set for 12* base and my distrubitor is pretty much all the way adanced and its at 12tdc (stock timing marks on the crank)

Jim Truett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Change it in hondata. It is just a pain in the *** to change it because you can't say, change all the values by 4 degrees, only percent.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Damn. Yet another feature Crome has over Hondata.

Last car I tuned I set the dizzy to 12* with the OBD-2 ECU, then proceeded to subtract 4* atb from the timing maps.

PrecisionH23a

If you change the base ignition advance in hondata it will automatically change all of your timing tables to 'equal' out.

I set the dizzy to 16 and base ignition to 16. Things are good to go... unfortunately cylinder 3 is reading low in compression right now. Let's see if I can crank out 300+ with this bitch.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

nice man. yea, as long as you just change all your maps around, it should be good to go.

But I was thinking more or less of putting the dizzy at 12, and then pulling the maps down to 12 to match..

PrecisionH23a

I was thinking the same... but it's in theory the same thing. Once you change base ignition advance it will subtract/add that difference from every cell in your timing tables.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

it will, but total timing will now be advanced, when it should just be pulled back to where it was in stock form, and then adjusted.

It is like taking a Z6 map and adding 4 degrees of timing to it...

You want to match the map with the motors timing, not the motor to what the ecu says.

PrecisionH23a

Right now I set it at 16 on the dizzy and 16 at base ignition advance.

If I were to set the dizzy at 12, I would have to go and set base ignition advance at 12. Hondata will automatically subtract 4 degrees from all prior settings.

So if I was running 24 degrees at 8psi at 16 BIA it will now run 20 degrees at 8psi with 12 BIA. Same ****... different numbers. I'm more used to seeing maps with 16BIA so when on the dyno I won't have to add/subtract 4 degrees in my head when comparing it to other cars I've tuned.

Or am I mistaken?

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I think you are mistaken. Maybe I am though.. But I would match the ECU to the stock timing of the motor you are doing. If the motor it self requires less timing all the way around, then that is what you should give to it. But I guess that is your call as well. I am not sure why it is different than all the other motors. But this motor will not compare in timing to a Z6, if the Y8 maps "stock" are retarded by 4*, you want to be running 4* less than a Z6 every where. So setting it to 12 at idle and setting your maps to 12 as well, there will be no math to do.

ATS*Mark

im going to PM mase with this thread so he can shed some light. when i was going through this crap with uberdata what i did to achieve 12 was......go into uberdata and set 12 for the base and subtract 4 from the ignition maps to achieve about 18 degrees total timing , i then had to go to the distributer and advance it and it wouldnt even get to 12 degrees , i had to advance my cam gear all the way to get 12 degrees . but i did end up with 12 degrees on the dot. like i said i will send this to mase so he can put his imput in.

PrecisionH23a

Mase won't answer me because he is a ****.

If it makes you feel any better... I spoke with Tony1 about this earlier today. I just got done doing some partial street tuning and the ****** is spiking to 13psi right now on low boost. I'm going to rerun the hoses tomorrow and hopefully we'll see what it does on the dyno.

ATS*Mark

what boost level are you trying to achieve?

_Cyclone_

Ok then... so in in effort to match the ecu's timing with my Y8's... I have to make sure my tuner sets it for 12BIA... I don't know what the basemap is set for, but I have a feeling it's 16BIA because it's a P28, and that's probably just what he went with. When I plug this ecu in and start it, will I be able to tell if it's 12BIA or 16BIA with the timing light?

Arturbo

All you have to do is synch up the distributor timing to what rom editor says. who cares what the "base" ignition timing is. As long as you know its sync'd up then the rest of the map is ok.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All you have to do is synch up the distributor timing to what rom editor says. who cares what the "base" ignition timing is. As long as you know its sync'd up then the rest of the map is ok.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That does make sense, but what I am trying to say is that if the Y8 is suppose to run 4* less timing everywhere as opposed to a Z6, wouldn't you want to match the rom editor to the ignition timing for the motor.