B18C Turbo

What do you guys think? Im almost done with my built turbo B18c1 and Im planning on buying a AEM wideband o2, lap top, and a ostrich. Going either uberdata or crome, I will have Chris @ xenocron write me up a nice basemap for my 750cc injectors and 3 bar map.

Im just curious because I have never tuned before but I am very good with computers and I built the engine myself. I have done so much searching and have learned so much, but no one ever goes over things like: what gear to use during tuning, tips on tuning, how to go thru the software etc.

Anybody got any input on tuning theirselves?

eg crunkmonster

id like to know also, bump

B18C Turbo

what are all the numbers in the fuel lo and fuel hi maps?

What are all the numbers in the ign lo and and ign Hi maps?

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what are all the numbers in the fuel lo and fuel hi maps?

What are all the numbers in the ign lo and and ign Hi maps?</TD></TR></TABLE>
you've got a lot to learn my friend . Go to pgmfi.org and reasearch research research.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Probably going to take you a few years and a few motors to get decent at it.

B18C Turbo

yes, anybody know what those numbers convert out to? IS that fuel?

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Probably going to take you a few years and a few motors to get decent at it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You can substitute the few motors for actual understanding.

There is still no substitute for experience.

B18C Turbo

I see

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C Turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes, anybody know what those numbers convert out to? IS that fuel?</TD></TR></TABLE>
the ignition table numbers are degrees before top dead center. If the value is negative then it is in degrees after top dead center. The fuel values are arbitrary numbers the ecu uses to determine injector pulswidth. All you gotta know is the larger the number the more fuel.

iBrandon

numbers in the fuel tables is your VE (volumetric effiency)...Its how much air is in your cylinders....By decresing and incresing the numbers you are telling the computer that there is so much air in it..and it adds fuel accordingly off the fuel multiplier....Numbers in the ignition tables are...well its how much timing you are running...Hi map is when you are in vtec...You can tune your afr's on the street if you have someone with you...leave your timing very conservative and tune it on the dyno! Some people do pulls in 3rd...some on 4th depending on the tuner...

Research Research and do some more research....www.pgmfi.org is a good place to start...picking up some of Ben Straders books are very good reads...and if you can, take his EFI classes, they dont exactly tell you how to use a certain program, but instead give you a tuning basic and theories....

HamiltonRex

My tuner just 'set' timing.. Then tuned the afr, we started out in vacume, then did some boost pulls in 3rd at different throttle positions.. then did some WOT tuning.. Once the AFR was set, he added some timing.

B18C Turbo

good stuff thanks guys, lets get some more input because I KNOW there are others out there wanting to know the same

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iBrandon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">numbers in the fuel tables is your VE (volumetric effiency).</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, it's not, although if things were set up differently the fuel values could be represented as such. Sounds like you sat in on an EFI101 class, some of the software they demo with represents fuel as VE%.

In the old days, the fuel values were the actual data table values, multiplied by the column multiplier found at the bottom of the fuel map in the actual code, converted to decimal, and multiplied by 4. This is the convention Hyundaidata uses.

Uberdata up to 1.666wootwoot used this same convention, with the leap to 16 bit fuel maps in 1.7 things changed around a good bit.

Crome uses this convention, but it gets molested by Final Value Fuel Tools. If you don't use FVFT, or keep all your multipliers set to 1.000, then the numbers adhere to that convention.

Not that any of this matters one bit, it's just fun to split hairs.

dunkd

I would say just have xenocron tune it the first time and ask him lots of questions. try to learn every little thing he is doing. once you know what everything is you can go and start tweaking his tune a little bit to fit what you want.

then once you feel you understand everything 100%, start a new chip with just your tuning on it. You can always go back to the other one for reference.

B18C Turbo

I would love to have xenocron tune it but hes about a 4 hour drive and all that highway cruising is not good for a fresh built motor. There is a guy who is known to be really good here in Boston who is willing to come to my house and tune right from my garage for $420 with dyno tuning.

I don't know anyone who will come to my door and help me with this, except this guy so its a deal I can't pass on.

Joseph Davis

$420 with some dyno time sounds pretty good... but I've driven 700 miles one way to chill with xenocron before, so the four hour drive holds no water with me. He's good people.

There's something to be said for stock injectors, ECU, MAP and not boosting when it's time to drive somewhere.

seen4ever

as said above, the fuel values meaning varies by application. With Autronic, you actually do adjust volumetric efficiency, this is why you can change the desired a/f table and the ecu can automatically adjust the fuel maps to exactly what you want, due to mapping the volumetric efficiency of the engine and then knowing the exact output of specific injectors.

all the hondata clones run off some form of injector pulse, which is why you can view the torque curve with your fuel map via 2d mode.

ignition is just that... ignition values. when i started tuning 3-4 years ago, i did it because there was no one else local to do it and i just started to play around with it. I started with some hacked up map another person had done. then went back to start with the default hondata gsr map, then adjusted accordingly.

Just takes alot of research and hands on time with a car and a laptop to see what really works.

B18C Turbo

There's something to be said for stock injectors, ECU, MAP and not boosting when it's time to drive somewhere.


What does that mean?

seen4ever

it is nice if the car is 100% stock.. as you can't expletive things up as quickly, but in reality... changing timing 3 degrees on a 100% stock NA car won't do a whole lot. 3 degrees on a turbo car can be a night and day difference.

Tactic$

Like said above, it would seem as though you have a lot to learn before you tune your own car. I literally studied for years before I decided to tune mine. It was scary at first, but here we are, a couple years later.... and its all good.

It is trial and error just like JD said. (i've just been lucky, or not pushing the envelope hard enough.... Im still on motor #1)


I tuned my own using Uber, PLX, VAFC (for monitoring pressure only)
.
.
.
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And a chalk board. (yes, im a super cheap bastard, that can't afford a laptop)

I logged the mm/hg on the VAFC, converted, found that area on the map, made changes, and went for a drive. Log, return, burn, tune. (just to give you a few BAD ideas)

****, I might damn near be HT's most ghetto tuner EvAR.

Topdawgg

just tuned mine this week with a wideband 02... just street tuned..didnt touch ignition... got it workin AMAZING...
im in the high 11's and low 12s when boostin and in Vtec.... i think im pretty safe..

Ready to throw it on the dyno for a couple passes and do ignition..