Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please

 
Old 06-10-2018, 04:03 PM
  #1  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
charosenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Compressor Surge? (Stall?) SOLVED

I installed a T3-T4 on my 1.8L Civic and it works great until it hits 6lbs and then it rapidly drops to 0 boost..... I thought it was a weak BOV but I blocked it off and still hit the wall. I have 400cc injectors so it is not them.

Here are the specs:

Compressor, A/R.60 - Inducer 54.3mm Exducer - 71mm (inlet 3" outlet 2

Turbine: A/R .63 Inducer 65.25mm Exducer 56mm.

Exhaust is 3" V Band with race muffler and not CAT.

Thoughts on why this stalls???

Charlie.

Last edited by charosenz; 07-30-2018 at 04:14 PM. Reason: flagging the issue as solved.
charosenz is offline  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:09 PM
  #2  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 23,357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please

Originally Posted by charosenz View Post
I installed a T3-T4 on my 1.8L Civic and it works great until it hits 6lbs and then it rapidly drops to 0 boost..... I thought it was a weak BOV but I blocked it off and still hit the wall. I have 400cc injectors so it is not them.

Here are the specs:

Compressor, A/R.60 - Inducer 54.3mm Exducer - 71mm (inlet 3" outlet 2

Turbine: A/R .63 Inducer 65.25mm Exducer 56mm.

Exhaust is 3" V Band with race muffler and not CAT.

Thoughts on why this stalls???

Charlie.
Tuner, or ECU related....nothing to do with turbo
TheShodan is offline  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:23 PM
  #3  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
charosenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Tuner, or ECU related....nothing to do with turbo
I have considered that, and I certainly have not discounted it. But tough to pinpoint. I am using the SDSEFI.com ECU and I have a lot of faith in it, as I have used it for years and never had any issues, but it certainly could be something I have programmed that I have not figured out.

I wondered about the MAP sensor. It is supposed to be a 2 bar unit. But I wondered if it was labeled wrong, and I ended up with a 1 bar sensor, if that could be the cause?

I do appreciate the reply and I will study my programming more...

Charlie
charosenz is offline  
Old 06-11-2018, 04:40 AM
  #4  
2x0
Honda-Tech Member
 
2x0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 1,929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please

Originally Posted by charosenz View Post
I have considered that, and I certainly have not discounted it. But tough to pinpoint. I am using the SDSEFI.com ECU and I have a lot of faith in it, as I have used it for years and never had any issues, but it certainly could be something I have programmed that I have not figured out.

I wondered about the MAP sensor. It is supposed to be a 2 bar unit. But I wondered if it was labeled wrong, and I ended up with a 1 bar sensor, if that could be the cause?

I do appreciate the reply and I will study my programming more...

Charlie

So it was working fine with a different turbo previously, and all you did was change to the T3/T4 and this started happening?
2x0 is offline  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:00 AM
  #5  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 23,357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please

Originally Posted by charosenz View Post
I have considered that, and I certainly have not discounted it. But tough to pinpoint. I am using the SDSEFI.com ECU and I have a lot of faith in it, as I have used it for years and never had any issues, but it certainly could be something I have programmed that I have not figured out.

I wondered about the MAP sensor. It is supposed to be a 2 bar unit. But I wondered if it was labeled wrong, and I ended up with a 1 bar sensor, if that could be the cause?

I do appreciate the reply and I will study my programming more...

Charlie
Understood, but compressor surge has to do with the BOV's ability to keep the compressor wheel from reversion on a physical /mechanical level, and not on a level related to your software adjustments. That's what I'm getting at. If you're not getting proper stable vacuum, have an issue with the BOV isn't venting properly, or have an issue with even the throttle body physically opening/closing properly, then we can start looking at compressor surge. But even a MAP sensor or TPS sensor issue, unless you have it directly tied into the physical act of opening the throttle body by way of Drive-by-wire, or other software-connected parameter, compressor surge is not your issue, even if you just changed turbochargers. Going "T3/T4" going from 2Bar- 1Bar, means that your issue is in the calibration of the voltage signal of the sensor in conjunction with your ECU, and doesn't fall into the physical symptoms and parameters of the "compressor surge" category.

Just trying to point you in a better direction as you're giving more information.
TheShodan is offline  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:07 PM
  #6  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
charosenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Understood, but compressor surge has to do with the BOV's ability to keep the compressor wheel from reversion on a physical /mechanical level, and not on a level related to your software adjustments. That's what I'm getting at. If you're not getting proper stable vacuum, have an issue with the BOV isn't venting properly, or have an issue with even the throttle body physically opening/closing properly, then we can start looking at compressor surge. But even a MAP sensor or TPS sensor issue, unless you have it directly tied into the physical act of opening the throttle body by way of Drive-by-wire, or other software-connected parameter, compressor surge is not your issue, even if you just changed turbochargers. Going "T3/T4" going from 2Bar- 1Bar, means that your issue is in the calibration of the voltage signal of the sensor in conjunction with your ECU, and doesn't fall into the physical symptoms and parameters of the "compressor surge" category.

Just trying to point you in a better direction as you're giving more information.
I appreciate your reply.

I have temporarily blocked off the BOV to ellminate it as the cause. The ECU has parameters for MAP, TPS, RPM, temps etc. I have reviewed all the programming and nothing stands out as being the culprit to cause the stall when I reach 41" of MAP.

I have been lookingt things over very carefully and found a few things that might be related but I doubt it.
1) I did fine two of the injector plugs slightly loose.
2) There was one coupling on the intake that was slightly loose.
3) I loosened up the preload on the wastegate accuator arm. thinking that there may be a slight chance this has increased the ramp-up of the pressure to be too much too fast.

Hopefully I can do more testing this weekend....

Charlie
charosenz is offline  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:47 AM
  #7  
Honda-Tech Member
 
Balor_Gr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Greece
Posts: 827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please

Ok it goes to lets say 6psi then what happens.Goes to 0 psi and then back to 6psi how slow,
what you hear?
Where you are measuring boost for the boost gauge?
Can you post a video?
Balor_Gr is offline  
Old 07-29-2018, 11:51 AM
  #8  
Trial User
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please

perform a boost leak check. That should be the first step to diagnosing ANY boost related problem.
awdordie is offline  
Old 07-30-2018, 04:13 PM
  #9  
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
charosenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Longview, WA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Re: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) SOLVED

I appreciate all the help.

The short answer is that my knock sensor was being too sensitive and it was activating an agressive retard in the timing.

The long answer is that I had been gun shy about pre-ignition after losing compersssion on a previous engine so I had my aftermarket ECU programmed to be too sensitive and to agressive on the retard. This set up is so loud that I had it set this way because I had no confidence I would hear the tell-tale knock. After watching the plugs like a hawk, and desensitizing the knock retard value in the ECU, I found that I could go beyond 5000 rpm easily.

Thanks again for all the help It helped me work through various solutions before finding the real culprit.

Charlie
charosenz is offline  
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Notmyusername
All Motor / Naturally Aspirated
0
10-16-2017 08:30 AM
96gsr209
Acura Integra
5
08-15-2009 07:51 AM
rasinhell
General Discussion and Debate
14
02-06-2006 02:32 PM
deftones0817
Honda CRX / EF Civic (1988 - 1991)
1
01-24-2004 11:36 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Compressor Surge? (Stall?) help please


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: