sicsixone

was wondering if anyone has any info on this type of setup.i was just at pomona for the finals and saw numarous people using this setup.i tryed doing a search in ht on it but dont know exactly what it is called.i was wondering if anyone has any info or a website,or diagram really to understand how it works.thanks for any help.




Modified by jonsswapshop at 1:57 AM 11/12/2005

sicsixone

bump

00IntegrAllmotoR

iTrader: (1)

would like to know more also.

Pay2play killa

you sure thats not for an air shifter?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

looks like that is for an air shifter

NLR

http://www.amsboostcontroller.com

uses co2 to control gate pressure .

.nate

I'm pretty sure that most of the big guys are using c02 to control the wastegates...

NLR

yep they do. This unit also will work off of manifold pressure but co2 is preffered for drag racing applications so you can run the lowest spring possible and use control pressure to suit your needs.

This will also work to control pressure on a supercharged application. Very useful!

2point2

- neat!

tokesGTR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NLR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yep they do. This unit also will work off of manifold pressure but co2 is preffered for drag racing applications so you can run the lowest spring possible and use control pressure to suit your needs.

This will also work to control pressure on a supercharged application. Very useful!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Since you're not running off of manifold pressure to the wastegate at all you can run a rediculously stiff spring to avoid blowing it open with high exhaust backpressure, but keep the wastegate open as early as you want. This is used a lot in situations where traction is an issue (IE, FWD cars, drag radial cars, 10.5 tire cars) so you can hold the boost down low off the line and bring in the boost and horsepower exactly how you want it on the top end. Also, a lot of the 10.5 tire guys running the big turbos (IE, Lynch mob on twin GT47-88's) are running a wastegate on the cold side of the plumbing, so that the turbos can spool up for instant boost and power when you need it without overwhelming the tires at the start. This is better than just a hot side wastegates, because it eliminates any lag when you're out of the hole.

tony1

When we run co2 we run a very small spring to allow us to get the boost really low, and then use the additional pressure available from the co2 to keep the gates shut up top. It all depends on how much exhaust backpressure you have though. One of my cars has 10lb springs and we're able to get the boost up to 60psi with no co2. It takes a pretty big turbo to get the backpressure low enough to be able to do that though.

NLR

We still use manifold pressure on the lift side of the gate and use control pressure to pin the gate shut. The unit has the capability to use a 30, 60 and 100 psi pressure transducer. This kit comes with a 60 and this covers most applications. Alot of the 10.5 car guys use our control. The controller basically has 2 controllers in 1. Main boost channel and then the aux channel. You can use the aux channel to control a gate on the cold side. Some like to use it on compound systems as well.
The nice thing is with co2 you dont have to rely and wait on manifold pressure to apply, its already there and all base settings can be tuned from inside the car. All electronic with the ability to use 100 different ramps per stage.

Another use for the aux channel is live boost readout. Connect it to you 5 volt signal on a 3 bar and it will display actual boost.

sicsixone

thank you for the reply's. nlr what do you mean by 10.5 car guy's.soo basicly it's another $1000.00 to manage my boost levels.i have an aem ems.does this have capabilites of managing this type of system.is there a simpler way of doing this system with out spending that much money for a controller.

tokesGTR

A racing class typically for RWD cars where they run on a 10-11 inch sidewall, depending if it's a 10.5 or a 10.5W class. Tire heights run from 28-33 inches. People are going 7.50's on a 28x10.5W tire, which isn't any bigger than what you might see on a typical camaro or mustang at the track running 11's. They walk a VERY fine line between hooking and spinning, so controlling boost and horsepower is pretty important.

NLR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonsswapshop &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thank you for the reply's. nlr what do you mean by 10.5 car guy's.soo basicly it's another $1000.00 to manage my boost levels.i have an aem ems.does this have capabilites of managing this type of system.is there a simpler way of doing this system with out spending that much money for a controller.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the controller is 850.00 comes with control unit , harness , solenoids and sensor.

Plenty of people use internal boost controllers that are part of there ecm's but it is your typical PID control or duty based control. There is no comparison in boost control and flexibility between the AMS-1000 and other boost controllers out there. I designed the controller because I needed more control than anything available. We need to control boost on 600hp turbocharged NO wheelie bar streetbikes that only have a 6 inch contact patch. Controlling boost pressure is one of the most important factors ! Everyone who runs our control(car and bikes) has picked up ET(they all had current controllers or ecm based). They all love it and swear by it.
Here is a pick of the world record holding pro 60" turbo monster Fastest pass to dat is 7.66 and fastest mph is 192

NLR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tokes1320 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A racing class typically for RWD cars where they run on a 10-11 inch sidewall, depending if it's a 10.5 or a 10.5W class. Tire heights run from 28-33 inches. People are going 7.50's on a 28x10.5W tire, which isn't any bigger than what you might see on a typical camaro or mustang at the track running 11's. They walk a VERY fine line between hooking and spinning, so controlling boost and horsepower is pretty important.</TD></TR></TABLE>


current 28x10.5 record holder with a 7.37@194 this car has also gone 4.84@155 in limited street trim on a 28x10.5 with no wheelie bars. Ams-1000 controller

k24em2

Very impressive. I'm going to need to get in touch with you soon.

TurboCoop

I love technology

JDogg

the aem ems will control boost with co2.. you just need a soleniod that can handle the extra pressure and wont leak. run the bottom port to the manifold, run the co2 to the top port with the soleniod inline.

tokesGTR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NLR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


current 28x10.5 record holder with a 7.37@194 this car has also gone 4.84@155 in limited street trim on a 28x10.5 with no wheelie bars. Ams-1000 controller


</TD></TR></TABLE>

I figured they'd gone faster, the last race I went to was NMRA Joliet 2004 when Blair went 7.50's for the first time, I figured the rest of the pack caught up but I didn't know anyone had gone 7.3's yet. SSO and all the small tire classes are definitely the most fun to watch, you know these arn't street cars any more (obviously) but it's still cool to see them running so quick on something other than 18 inch wide 33 inch tall steamrollers.

NLR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the aem ems will control boost with co2.. you just need a soleniod that can handle the extra pressure and wont leak. run the bottom port to the manifold, run the co2 to the top port with the soleniod inline.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Most engine management systems can control boost with co2. They just dont have the flexibility and control using co2 as our unit. It was specifically designed for this application.

Ill give ya an example.

Program a target pressure of 30 psi.
Ramp rate of 1 psi per second
source pressure at 100 psi!

The ams will deliver 1 psi a second for 30 seconds = 30 psi
No overshoot adjustment to be made or stability adjustments as they are not needed with our dynamic forward feedback technology.

JDogg

you cant exactly tell the ems you want 1psi per sec, etc.. but you can control how fast it ramps in, you can control it by rpms, throttle, vss, high low switch, etc. if i want the boost to come in slow i can do that, if i want it to come in faster i can change it to do that very easily. (great feature for FWD) the ammount of pressure you can use would depend on the soleniod you are using. i have been experimenting with using 2 soleniods to vary the ammount of boost going to the bottom of the wg as well, so you wont have to use co2 on cars that have too much backpressure in the exhaust... that will be a much easier and cheaper way than the co2

JDogg

NLR, do you know what kind of soleniod the ams boost controler uses??

tony1

The input pressure isn't so much dependent on the solenoid being used, as the amount of pressure required to achieve the boost target. Different input pressures, will end up with a different duty cycle at the solenoid for a given target boost. The NLR controller will work very good because the input pressure is a constant, and i'm sure they've done the homework to figure out the required duty cycles. The AEM doesn't use a closed loop system as far as i know, it's all duty cycle based, isnt' it? If so, the boost will change with weather or any VE changes made to the motor. The NLR controller sounds very easy to use, and w/o a doubt is one of the best controllers available. You can make the ems do what you want, most of the time, but it will never be as consistent as the NLR or anywhere near as easy to setup. I've setup a bunch of PID type boost controllers, and i know how much of a pain in the *** they can be!

JDogg

the ems does have closed loop boost control, you can use a pretty simple feedback table or a proportional/integral type feedback (similar to o2 feedback)

i was saying it depends on the soleniod, because im pretty sure that if you put 100psi on a gm boost control soleniod it will leak/break