1SlowSi

I just got done assembling the bottom end but have a couple concerns. Im using an LS crank, LS block, eagle rods, ARP 3/8" bolts, ACL std bearings. I plastigaged everything and its all from .0018-.0014 for all clearances. Its basically just the pistons, rods, and crank installed. What bothers me is that i cannot turn the crank by hand. Im grabbing on to the rod journal walls to try and turn and cant. Once i put a wrench on the end of the crank, it takes just a little bit to break looks then once that happens it feels like it spins freely. By freely i dont mean it feels like butter, its just a fairly easy rotation. But once it stops, still no dice with hands.

#2 - For the rod end to crank journal clearance there should be about a .01" of play which you can feel if you push the rod end left to right. I cannot do that. The rod end doesnt budge one bit. How important is this clearance?

What do you guys think? I mean, i remember on my old build that i can spin the rotating assembly with my hands. I think this crank is requiring some loose bearings which is pissing me off now. please help me out here. It feels like its rotating as it should once im using the wrench.

I am tq'ing the rod bolts to 43 ft lbs as instructed by Mike at Laskey Racing. All new ARP bolts are 3/8" now im assuming. At 26 ft lbs the clearances were money.




Modified by 1SlowSi at 10:58 PM 8/31/2008

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

Did you have the crank micro polished and balanced? The rod usually has very minimal side to side movement. If it spins freely using a wrench I wouldn't worry about it since thats the proper way to check it.

1SlowSi

Yes thats true. I cant imagine that spinning by hand is method to use. All thats said in any manual is to ensure the rotating assembly rotates freely. The crank was micropolished and balance. Both the block and crank checked out perfect as well.

V-SPEC 1

double check your rod bearings, you might have the wrong one on there. I mean maybe they are for GSR/ITR rod bearings. and is your eagle rods for LS?

1SlowSi

Yes, LS Eagle's

1SlowSi

Well i disconnected all the rods from the crank and the crank spins freely. It is the 2 rods that i knew were too tight so i guess thats it. Im gonna run the Clevite's for rod bearings. Anyone think thats okay?

V-SPEC 1

I'm 99% sure that you have the wrong rod bearings. can you take pictures of the rod bearings? is it narrow or wider bearings.

1SlowSi

I just put in LS ACL race bearings and its much better. ALTHOUGH, the 2 that were tight, 1 is now .0014 and the other is still at like .0011. Its better but definitely not what i wanted. I can move the rotating assembly by grabbing on the the crank counterweights and move it. I used HX's on the tighter rods and H's on the 2 that were fine. I could have left the 2 using ACL STD, but i decided to just switch them all out the race.

As far as being wrong i dunno. I got the stuff from Laskey and ive never had an issue with them, but ya never know. Ill check the box

DaveF

you should be able to turn the crank by the snout, IMO if you are moving it by pushing the counterweights, you are putting to much effort into it.

i would also try to get that rod bearing clearance a bit more.

a1320addict

iTrader: (1)

Anthony, was this block line honed?

1SlowSi

I have no idea. I just know that the machine shop i took it to used a CNC machine and they do some damn good work. Ill ask them tomorrow.

1SlowSi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaveF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you should be able to turn the crank by the snout, IMO if you are moving it by pushing the counterweights, you are putting to much effort into it.

i would also try to get that rod bearing clearance a bit more. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I can grab the snout and turn it but its a tad hard. Its easy with a wrench of course.

I dont see how it should turn with ease if you have to take the piston to wall friction into consideration. It feels okay as far as rotating though. The specs are pretty much just honda spec and not .002 like i wanted. Really, the only thing that concerns me is that ONE rod clearance. Sitting at .0011 ish, i dunno. I think it may be okay.

NOTE- the crank does turn freely when its the only thing in the block.

According to the helms, STD (new) bearings should be around .0012 and max service limit at .002.

UPDATE- I already fully assembled the bottom end tranny and all BUT, im seriously about to just say *** it, roll up to acura and get all oem bearings cause im putting wayyy too much time and money to have anything mess up later down the line. .001 is going to eat me up and i cant sleep at night until all my clearances at at .0015-.0018. Maybe you guys can help me, here are the specs by plastigage.

#1- .0016
#2- .0013
#3- .0014
#4- .0011

What colors will i need to get to obtain .0015-.0018 clearances?


Modified by 1SlowSi at 4:10 AM 8/30/2008

EdsGTI

double check that the rod caps are on the correct way, sometimes turning a rod cap around will cause the crank to spin rough. Generally if something like this occours make sure you have the right parts, then remove all rods and pistons from the crank and add them one by one until you figure it out.

1SlowSi

All bearings are installed properly. All rod cap bearing tangs are installed on the same side of the rod bearing tangs. Without a doubt, it is installed correctly. I will just have to go to honda to get the bearings. I might have to run red's on the tight rods, and maybe a step looser on the ones close to .0015. Help me out here.

How does this sound for running OEM bearings to get what i want

#1 - Yellow maybe stay Green since its already at .0015
#2 - Pink
#3 - Pink
#4 - Red


Modified by 1SlowSi at 4:49 AM 8/30/2008

V-SPEC 1

Using plastigauge is not really an accurate way of checking your clearance, You should use a decent dial bore gauge and micrometer.

DaveF

im working on an engine right now, that had messed up mains(yea, imagine that)

1st i tried using all acl bearings in the mains
it spun, but was "sticky" until it got momentum..

then i said F it, i went to acura, bought all new oem main bearings(corresponding block/crank )

assembled it again, it was worse than the acl's... took it all back apart after that &
took it to a machine shop(they had it for 2 weeks) to get an align hone done. the machinest told me all of the main journals were a bit on the small side..

i am kinda mad that i didnt just drop it off the 1st time to get an align hone, but instead wasted ~130.00 bucks on all new oem main bearings then had to get an align hone anyways.... GRRRR

so yesterday i picked the block up, assembled the whole thing.(using the acl bearings)

i can spin the crank by hand with the pistons and rods installed ! (my race engine is the same way)

V-SPEC 1

When you can spin it by hand, what usually the clearance of that engine Dave? I sometimes had to use wrench on the crank bolt to spin it due to friction of the rings on the new honed sleeve.

DaveF

i dont think the bearing clearances should cause any friction. reguardless if its 1.8 on the mains/ 1.5 on the rods. or 2.5 on the mains/ 2.2 on the rods. a tighter ring gap would most likely be your culprit. do you spray your cyl walls and rings with wd40 before installing the piston/rod assembly in the engine ?

SPOOLINmatt

you shouldn't be able to turn the assembled engine by hand, but you should be able to turn an installed crank by hand. Don't over analyze things, thats what blows stuff up.

1SlowSi

It definitely FEELS okay as far as being able move the entire rotating assembly, but its just .001 of clearance that its coming up with for those 2 rods.

SuperTeg95

I would check to make sure you didn't accidently put the wrong caps on the wrong rod. I have done that before and I was getting weird clearances. I checked over it and noticed that I had to rod caps swapped and once I put them in the correct place, everything worked out great.

1SlowSi

What if i just started swapping out caps to see if i get any better clearances? who knows. But i dont think they got mismatched.

So i plastigaged it AGAIN and came up with different clearances.

1- .0016
2- .0001 instead of the .0013 i had last time
3- .0015
4- .0090

I am tq'ing the rod bolts to 43 ft lbs as instructed by Mike at Laskey Racing. All new ARP bolts are 3/8" now im assuming. At 26 ft lbs the clearances were money.


Modified by 1SlowSi at 10:55 PM 8/31/2008

DaveF

stock rods with arp bolts ?

1SlowSi

eagle LS rods with arp bolts. I was told that they need to be torqued down to 43 ft lbs.... sound right?

DaveF

is the bolt 3/8 diameter or 5/16 diameter ?