datbumper

I am going off to college in a year. I currently have $11,000 saved up from the past couple of years, and I own a 2009 Corolla LE that I am going to sell (about 8k-9k) so that I can go all out on the build once I find myself a nice EM1. I plan to turbo it. I need your guys' thoughts and opinions.

First things first: It is going to be an EBP EM1. I don't care if I have to pay for a full paint job, EBP is too sexy to not do it.

Now, I have heard so many good things about the B18C1. It's more powerful than the B16A2 and is just a better engine in general from what I've heard. Would it be worth it to swap out the B16 for a full GSR swap and then sell the B16 off? What could I expect to get for it?

Fliptard

The b18c1 (Gsr) has more power all around, but the b16 can rev higher, in stock form. Picking the engine is up to you, what you could do is pick up the EM1, and find a gsr and build that up while you drive the SI.

Then keep the B16 for back-up or build that as well.

datbumper

My plan was to actually drive it stock (unless I find an EM1 that already comes with a GSR swap, of course) and pick up a spare B18C1 block and build it. Then either swap just the engine or go ahead and do a full GSR swap. If I'm not using the B16, I'd probably want to sell it off though.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

If he has that much money saved I would expect forged internals and some headwork...

Op what are your power/torque goals. desired powerband and primary use of the vehicle. This information will help us help you with a solid plan of attack for your build

If you're after a good build with equal amounts of power and torque. Build as lsvtec... i'm building my second and loved it. The b16 will rev higher but that doesnt matter that much, your rev limit should be around wherever power drops off, the only downside is b16s are torqueless.

Thw gsr will make more torque but it's marginal. An ls/vtec with a b16 head gives you access to a bounty of parts anr you'll make gobs of torque due to the longer stroke

datbumper

It'll be all out. Bored, sleeved, forged pistons, Ferrea valves and valvetrain, Skunk2 cams and cam gears, Eagle H-Beam rods, valve job.

I want to make 400hp. It'll be my DD, so I don't want to be spinning tires everywhere I go. It needs to be STREETABLE.
Not sure of a desired number as far as torque goes, but I don't want it torqueless (duh).

Why LS/Vtec? I know it's a bit more of a complex build, which may cause me to run into some problems, especially considering this is my first time every tackling something this big. I don't really have any real world experience when it comes to cars... The most I've done is changed oil and changed a few tires. However, I've read a **** TON and consider myself knowledgeable and I feel like I am competent enough to do this and other mods to the car.

Another reason I was looking into a GSR swap is because of the simplicity of it. You have a GSR engine, GSR trans, and GSR everything else. You don't have to worry about a "Frankenstein" build, and I think that may be best considering my lack of hands-on experience. There would be less things to go wrong.

nealnanoHX

1.8L>1.6L. The GSR can rev just as high as a B16 in stock form. I like LS Vtec motors personally, the LS motor as a longer stroke which = more TQ and since you are going to build the motor your pick on the block is a minimal detail. The B16 motors love to be boosted but a larger motor will make more power all other thing being =.

datbumper

So, Cliffs:
1. B16 = higher revving, less torque. However, may high-revving aspect may not even matter if the powerband falls off
2. B18C1 = More torque and hp than B16.
3. LS/Vtec = More torque than B18C1 due to longer stroke?

What causes the LS to have a longer stroke?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The crank. It has the longest stroke of any b series motor

datbumper

So the only benefit of a B18C1 swap over an LS/VTEC swap would be simplicity? LS/VTEC would be better in every other way?

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Do a fully built gsr Motor with la crankshaft for best torque and Hp. Porting isn't nessesary just springs retainers valves keepers and a good valve Jon along with bronze guides.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

You can put a ls crank in a gsr, you have to modify the oil squirters due to clearance issues. It gives you everything of an lsvtec but with a bottom end girdle and you don't need an external oil feed to the head

Muckman can chime in here, it's what his project is based around

justYncredible

iTrader: (1)

Is picking up a gsr motor that easy? I mean I can't find a legit one at all and everyone else (other states) make it sound so easy.

datbumper

Depends on where you live I guess. There's not ALOT around me, but you just have to keep an eye out on Craigslist and here.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

That's what I run I put in oil squirter block offs because they hit the piston skirts. You also no longer "need" oil squirters with forged internals.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You could much more easily integrate a B20 or LS crank in the GSR and have he best of both worlds without LS/VTEC conversion kits or external lines and all that stuff. I've done several of those with sooo much more ease than any LS VTEC. Good stroke, you can still sleeve and even as an oil cooler with no issues.

mar778c

iTrader: (1)

If you go Ls crank in a gsr, retang the rods for gsr bearings.

SiRCiviC94

Speaking from experience with the right combinations b16s make the same power as a Gsr just later in the power band.

My b16 made over 220ft lbs on 11 psi my buddy makes 205 with his Gsr on 12 w a bigger snail. Numbers don't lie

datbumper

Curious... why do people do LS/VTEC if it's so much more simple to do a GSR swap with a different crank? Is it a price thing?

justYncredible

iTrader: (1)

It's just numbers.
My gsr make 228ft lbs @10lbs with my turbo but my compression is 9:1

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The advantages to a gsr with an ls crank are this

More torque
No external head oil feed (doesn't matter much to me as long as it gets oil
Uses ls rods, no need to modify anything for other bearings
Gsr bottom ends have a factory girdle (don't know if it needs to be modifed for the longer stroke crank

Disadvantages

You lose the piston squirters, which also help lubricate cylinder walls

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Its an availability thing. The B18A1's advantage is JUST the crankshaft. Most people who are selling these blocks don't want to separate the crank from the rest of the bottom end, lowering its resale value.

So, if you find a B20/LS crank (they are the same crankshaft) GO FOR IT!

SiRCiviC94

So what do people think when the 1.6 class is stressing out the Gsr guys and they're all like wtf is it bored out? Built k? They don't even believe me it's a b16a and stock.

I have a question tho. Which could help the op, What kind of mileage range can a built ls VTec with stand. Say a wiseco Piston and rod, dual springs new valves and steel retainers. I'm sure it should last like any engine but were talking +100+ degree and then down to 60 a month later and running dd... Say 40k a year. Would that even last like oem?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Must be where you live. No one really worries about stuff like that to extent. Peak power is peak power at that point. Especial when you're now talking about class racing with large 800hp capable turbochargers. This example revolves around torque and use on the street and circuit..

If you know how to assemble and clearance the engine properly, there's no reason why it can't run about as long as OEM. But remember, the more you abuse the car, the less it lasts, be it true OEM or otherwise.

siblues

iTrader: (1)

Nothing holds up like OEM and I mean nothing.There are fully built motors that have lasted but theyare few and far between.I dont know if its tuning or simple installer error so lets not go down that rout since once you start going boosted on a honda you have to expect to spend money.I always wondered the same thing why not just run an ls crank in a gsr?Seems like you get all of the benefits without any of the hassles.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Fully built motors dont last as long because they are purpose built to have the **** beat out of them with high hp numbers. If you fully build a gsr motor and drive it like a stock oem motor it will last as long or longer