RACEPAK

whats up folks ?

o.k. this is the deal..
i live in israel we dont have a dyno here, most of the tuners here are smart like a bag old dry ****. thay dont know a thing whan it comes to tuning turbo car's.
please help me

i need a management for my setup, my goal is 6 psi (but i don't know if it's obd 1 or 2 !)

here is a picture of the ecu:
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/657283/5

my car is a 1997 hatch 1.4L iS (90 hp). the engine code is: D14A4.

the setup is:
-hf manifold + ihi rhb5
-small dsm smic
-hks super bov
-2" chargepipes
-custom DP
-stock exhust

please help me get the car rev hard and safe.

RACEPAK

up 4 noon....

AzntaggeR

looks like obd2, but i could be wrong. obd2 ecus tend to have the square ecus while obd1 is more rectangular shaped.

T-RO

This should help:
http://www.hondata.com/techecuid.html

PHiZ

does the ecu have 2 plugs? We have some info on that from an austrailian over on turboD16.com. We also have a Croatian running a D14 turbo setup. You should sign up.
-PHiZ

RACEPAK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does the ecu have 2 plugs? We have some info on that from an austrailian over on turboD16.com. We also have a Croatian running a D14 turbo setup. You should sign up.
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>

hello phiz.
i am registerd at your forum and i'v talked to the croatian guy (nick), seems that he also dont know what obd is this.

i'll have pictures of it in a hour or so.

best regatds moshik galimidi

RACEPAK

here are the pictures of the ecu:

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/657283/5

i dont know how to post them cardomain pictures.

ZoRG

biggmike2

that looks like a obd2 to me
check out uberdata and hondata(both obd1) or afc hack(works with ur current ecu)

RACEPAK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by biggmike2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> or afc hack(works with ur current ecu)</TD></TR></TABLE>

are you saying that i can use a the afc?

flip1199

i'd say u might wanna go the fmu route since u dont really have access to a dyno or tuner for the other options

omahaturbocivic

That does not look like a standard obd2 connector or an obd1, either way you can count on not being able to chip that particular ecu or anything like that. I am not sure of your electronics skills or confidence in learning to tune the car yourself but if it were my car I would make my own custom conversion harness to run a usdm ecu with uberdata. Odds are the distributor is probably going to have the same sensors like the rest obd1-obd2 units so hopefully all you would need is the harness and ecu.

Heres what you need to make a custom harnes
1. Find a pinout for that ecu. (this will be the hardest part)
2 Find a pinout for a usdm obd1 ecu. (these are everywhere)
3. Get a spare ecu that has the same connectors yours does.
4. Get some cut obd1 ecu connectors with at least 6 inches of wire

Then you(or somebody that can do it) have to desolder and remove the female connectors out of the spare ecu. Once you have the connectors freed just match the pins from the obd1 pinout to your pinout and solder and heatshrink the appropriate wires on the obd1 clips to the appropriate pins on your connectors. Then just get a usdm p06(p28 if you have vtec) or whatever to socket, get a chip burner and tune away.

biggmike2

for 6psi the AFC or FMU route should work great. i like the afc route since you can just copy someone elses setting that has a similar set up.

Mag00n

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by biggmike2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for 6psi the AFC or FMU route should work great. i like the afc route since you can just copy someone elses setting that has a similar set up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

AFC is actually safer at 10psi than 6psi.

dunkd

cool 1.4L i think an AFC would be your best bet with some DSM 450's... cheap and efficient for low power good luck.

0xenocron

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mag00n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

AFC is actually safer at 10psi than 6psi.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How do you figure that one?

raene

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How do you figure that one? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Look at the stock ECU's map. With the 450s you have to apply a certain scale or you'll run stupid rich. If he ran something like a 370cc then he could run -40 on the AFC and do OK at 6 psi. But on DSM 450cc's he needs to run 10psi or he's getting some nasty advance.

Mag00n

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How do you figure that one? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Search

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=841443

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Look at the stock ECU's map. But on DSM 450cc's he needs to run 10psi or he's getting some nasty advance. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct

0xenocron

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mag00n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Search

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=841443

Correct</TD></TR></TABLE>

Search my ***...

On 'the Hack' you are advanced no matter what. Yeah at 6psi you might be a little more advanced than 10psi....BUT YOU ARE STILL ADVANCED AT 10 PSI and you have to pass 6psi along the way

And for the 370cc to 450cc injector comment, not knowing much about a 1.4L engine...he may be able to get away with 10psi on 370cc injectors but I'm guessing that would be dangerous ground. And again, although he would be running less advance with the 370cc injectors...he would still be advanced, at 10psi, mostly likely close to the injectors max duty cycle.

Unsivil_audio

I'm gonna say OBD2, but an easy way to tell is Do you have 1 or 2 o2 sensors? 1 o2 sensor means OBD 1, whereas 2 o2 sensors means OBD 2. Also I do believe honda went to OBD 2 in 96+, all the civics and integras as well as accords are like that here, I have no reason to believe that they arent that way there.

PHiZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omahaturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That does not look like a standard obd2 connector or an obd1, either way you can count on not being able to chip that particular ecu or anything like that. I am not sure of your electronics skills or confidence in learning to tune the car yourself but if it were my car I would make my own custom conversion harness to run a usdm ecu with uberdata. Odds are the distributor is probably going to have the same sensors like the rest obd1-obd2 units so hopefully all you would need is the harness and ecu.

Heres what you need to make a custom harnes
1. Find a pinout for that ecu. (this will be the hardest part)
2 Find a pinout for a usdm obd1 ecu. (these are everywhere)
3. Get a spare ecu that has the same connectors yours does.
4. Get some cut obd1 ecu connectors with at least 6 inches of wire

Then you(or somebody that can do it) have to desolder and remove the female connectors out of the spare ecu. Once you have the connectors freed just match the pins from the obd1 pinout to your pinout and solder and heatshrink the appropriate wires on the obd1 clips to the appropriate pins on your connectors. Then just get a usdm p06(p28 if you have vtec) or whatever to socket, get a chip burner and tune away. </TD></TR></TABLE>



Excellent info, and that is what I reccomended to Nick7. However, as far as the AFC goes. I seem to remember this ecu fires the injectors in batches. so 2 injectors share one wire. So it is doable, it just requires some brainpowering.

If nick7 gets me the ecu pinouts, I will try and figure out a conversion harness for him. And might end up building it to help out our euro friends

-PHiZ

Mag00n

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Search my ***...

On 'the Hack' you are advanced no matter what. Yeah at 6psi you might be a little more advanced than 10psi....BUT YOU ARE STILL ADVANCED AT 10 PSI and you have to pass 6psi along the way

And for the 370cc to 450cc injector comment, not knowing much about a 1.4L engine...he may be able to get away with 10psi on 370cc injectors but I'm guessing that would be dangerous ground. And again, although he would be running less advance with the 370cc injectors...he would still be advanced, at 10psi, mostly likely close to the injectors max duty cycle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You either
A.) Are a moron
B.) Can't ******* read.
C.) Are a moron who cannot ******* read.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Well, you want to be safe so you only run a low boost setup, 5 to 6 psi. Whatever the hell low boost has to do with safe, I keep thinking quality of tune and power output are your yardsticks to measure engine safety by... but what do I know? So you run 5 to 6 psi... ~1400 mBar. With the AFC hack you are at 31-32 degrees ignition advance, around 7 degrees advanced from where you would be without any ignition retard under boost with any other setup. Let's not even take into account the higher load your engine is under, and the heat and stresses involved. My, the sweet sound of detonation in the morning!

Now, heaven forfend you should have paid me a lick of attention when I advised people that running as much boost as the stock Honda MAP sensor is capable of reading is your route to safety with the AFC hack. Note how you end up within a degree or so of your otherwise normal ignition timing when you transition into boost. You can't help the transitory high ignition advance you pass through, but with how quickly turbos spool in most cases it doesn't matter; you spend the bulk of your time during the boost event at full boost, and if you have retarded your distributor 2-3 degrees you should have adequate ignition retard under boost.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XENOMORON &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> and you have to pass 6psi along the way </TD></TR></TABLE>

<U>You can't help the transitory high ignition advance you pass through, but with how quickly turbos spool in most cases it doesn't matter; you spend the bulk of your time during the boost event at full boost, </U>

Also I NEVER said AFC was the best or safest way to go. I said the AFC runs SAFEST at around the limits of map sensor. Which you yourself admitted in your assinine post above.

I'm choosing option C. Thankyoucomeagain.

0xenocron

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mag00n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You either
A.) Are a moron
B.) Can't ******* read.
C.) Are a moron who cannot ******* read.

<U>You can't help the transitory high ignition advance you pass through, but with how quickly turbos spool in most cases it doesn't matter; you spend the bulk of your time during the boost event at full boost, </U>

Also I NEVER said AFC was the best or safest way to go. I said the AFC runs SAFEST at around the limits of map sensor. Which you yourself admitted in your assinine post above.

I'm choosing option C. Thankyoucomeagain.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow...you quoted me and called me XENOMORON...how clever of you.

Did you read the part where J.Davis said

"you spend the bulk of your time during the boost event at full boost, and if you have retarded your distributor 2-3 degrees you should have adequate ignition retard under boost."

Oh, thats right...you forgot to mention that to the guy when you advised him on going with the Hack at 10psi!!!

You're whole post just reiterated everything I had said in the post before. Tool

In my book...any advance is unacceptable, which is why I questioned your original un-helpful post where you didnt explain why..

PHiZ

Yes, but you forgot the fact that J.Davis, as intelligent as he is, is an overly pendantic, dusty old stunna, who has of late been self-absorbed in being an academic, and suffering from the inability to distinguish between academic arguments and practical arguments.

Acadmenic argument: AFC is bad because it advance timing.
Practical argument: The AFC HAS WORKED on hundreds of cars, it's not perfect, but it is workable. Same argument applies to FMUs.

-PHiZ

0xenocron

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, but you forgot the fact that J.Davis, as intelligent as he is, is an overly pendantic, dusty old stunna, who has of late been self-absorbed in being an academic, and suffering from the inability to distinguish between academic arguments and practical arguments.

Acadmenic argument: AFC is bad because it advance timing.
Practical argument: The AFC HAS WORKED on hundreds of cars, it's not perfect, but it is workable. Same argument applies to FMUs.

-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bastid

Keep this thread on topic for this guy