Ceramic Coating-all please help
02-10-2007, 09:08 AM
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Ceramic Coating-all please help
Just a quick question for you turbo guys...
Im new at this and the first thing I'm picking up.. after months of research, is a forced performance dsm manifold. They just came out with a new one it looks great. Its only 250 with the group buy.. and they offer 75$ with a ceramic coating that is good for thermal insulation.. is there any need for this?
Does it help performance.. or does it truly help rust protection to have this thing painted?
Im new at this and the first thing I'm picking up.. after months of research, is a forced performance dsm manifold. They just came out with a new one it looks great. Its only 250 with the group buy.. and they offer 75$ with a ceramic coating that is good for thermal insulation.. is there any need for this?
Does it help performance.. or does it truly help rust protection to have this thing painted?
02-10-2007, 09:34 AM
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Ceramic coating will help performance (slightly) and will keep the manifold looking good for many years.
Mine is going on 2 years with ceramic and it still looks great. My manifold was very rusty when I had it coated, so I'm surprised the coating is holding up. They bead blasted the thing prior to coating.
The benefit of the coating is really three-fold
1.) it helps keep the heat inside where it can be used to create power
2.) it helps keep the underhood temps a bit cooler which has a multitude of benefits
3.) aesthetics.
Mine is going on 2 years with ceramic and it still looks great. My manifold was very rusty when I had it coated, so I'm surprised the coating is holding up. They bead blasted the thing prior to coating.
The benefit of the coating is really three-fold
1.) it helps keep the heat inside where it can be used to create power
2.) it helps keep the underhood temps a bit cooler which has a multitude of benefits
3.) aesthetics.
02-10-2007, 10:16 AM
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You can heat wrap it afterwards without worring about it rusting, then you will get a genuine reduction in under bonnet temps,keep the heat in the mani and much less likely to burn yourself when working around it .
02-10-2007, 11:22 AM
#5
Re: (Mr. Helsinki)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr. Helsinki »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ceramic coating will help performance (slightly) and will keep the manifold looking good for many years.
Mine is going on 2 years with ceramic and it still looks great. My manifold was very rusty when I had it coated, so I'm surprised the coating is holding up. They bead blasted the thing prior to coating.
The benefit of the coating is really three-fold
1.) it helps keep the heat inside where it can be used to create power
2.) it helps keep the underhood temps a bit cooler which has a multitude of benefits
3.) aesthetics.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Like so. We have high heat ceramic coating available.
Also good for compressor and turbine housings
Also in Black..
Mine is going on 2 years with ceramic and it still looks great. My manifold was very rusty when I had it coated, so I'm surprised the coating is holding up. They bead blasted the thing prior to coating.
The benefit of the coating is really three-fold
1.) it helps keep the heat inside where it can be used to create power
2.) it helps keep the underhood temps a bit cooler which has a multitude of benefits
3.) aesthetics.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Like so. We have high heat ceramic coating available.
Also good for compressor and turbine housings
Also in Black..
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02-12-2007, 11:03 AM
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Re: (93LSivic)
from someone who knows from experience......
Unless you get swaintech, just header wrap your mani. Header wrap works better.
The paint on stuff like hyperkote doesn't do **** for keeping in heat, scratches easily, discolors over time and plain out wasn't worth it.
I header wrapped my full race ramhorn mani and it it was like night and day temp difference.
Hell, I also put a turbo blanket around my turbo FTW
edit.....my sheit looked just like shodan's for a month, then it discolors to a grey color (like faded black jeans) and it doesn't help for keeping heat in. I agree with almost everything shodan says, he's very knowledgeable. But not on this topic.
Unless you get swaintech, just header wrap your mani. Header wrap works better.
The paint on stuff like hyperkote doesn't do **** for keeping in heat, scratches easily, discolors over time and plain out wasn't worth it.
I header wrapped my full race ramhorn mani and it it was like night and day temp difference.
Hell, I also put a turbo blanket around my turbo FTW
edit.....my sheit looked just like shodan's for a month, then it discolors to a grey color (like faded black jeans) and it doesn't help for keeping heat in. I agree with almost everything shodan says, he's very knowledgeable. But not on this topic.
02-12-2007, 11:30 AM
#9
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Re: (mike1114)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from someone who knows from experience......
Unless you get swaintechtopic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you have used every other coating company in the industry?
I personally used several for high temp ceramic and have yet to see a problem except for one which was a local place and it was a black ceramic coat. I use Calico on all my pistons and bearings, but have yet to use their coatings on parts you see, maybe soon though.
Unless you get swaintechtopic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you have used every other coating company in the industry?
I personally used several for high temp ceramic and have yet to see a problem except for one which was a local place and it was a black ceramic coat. I use Calico on all my pistons and bearings, but have yet to use their coatings on parts you see, maybe soon though.
02-12-2007, 11:36 AM
#10
Re: (mike1114)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">from someone who knows from experience......
Unless you get swaintech, just header wrap your mani. Header wrap works better.
The paint on stuff like hyperkote doesn't do **** for keeping in heat, scratches easily, discolors over time and plain out wasn't worth it.
I header wrapped my full race ramhorn mani and it it was like night and day temp difference.
Hell, I also put a turbo blanket around my turbo FTW
edit.....my sheit looked just like shodan's for a month, then it discolors to a grey color (like faded black jeans) and it doesn't help for keeping heat in. I agree with almost everything shodan says, he's very knowledgeable. But not on this topic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
OF course its going to look shiny like that. That is the polish that is used to keep its luster, after it is baked. The polish is applied via microbeads. After 1600degrees, NO polish is going to look like that. I tell all my customers that the luster will slightly fade, but the cooling effects are worth the use. There is no chipping of the coatings whatsoever. I'm not sure if you're trying to find something that is cool to the touch after only a couple of minutes, but I can definately tell you that there are some great affects from the coating. Like you said, perhaps it was simply your personal experience and expectation..
Some people get tired of the wrapping and re-wrapping of the turbo parts that they use, and worry about the fiberglass being wrapped around a certain piece of equipment. This is simply a cleaner, "less messy" alternative.
Unless you get swaintech, just header wrap your mani. Header wrap works better.
The paint on stuff like hyperkote doesn't do **** for keeping in heat, scratches easily, discolors over time and plain out wasn't worth it.
I header wrapped my full race ramhorn mani and it it was like night and day temp difference.
Hell, I also put a turbo blanket around my turbo FTW
edit.....my sheit looked just like shodan's for a month, then it discolors to a grey color (like faded black jeans) and it doesn't help for keeping heat in. I agree with almost everything shodan says, he's very knowledgeable. But not on this topic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
OF course its going to look shiny like that. That is the polish that is used to keep its luster, after it is baked. The polish is applied via microbeads. After 1600degrees, NO polish is going to look like that. I tell all my customers that the luster will slightly fade, but the cooling effects are worth the use. There is no chipping of the coatings whatsoever. I'm not sure if you're trying to find something that is cool to the touch after only a couple of minutes, but I can definately tell you that there are some great affects from the coating. Like you said, perhaps it was simply your personal experience and expectation..
Some people get tired of the wrapping and re-wrapping of the turbo parts that they use, and worry about the fiberglass being wrapped around a certain piece of equipment. This is simply a cleaner, "less messy" alternative.
02-12-2007, 11:42 AM
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Re: (TheShodan)
swaintech is still WAYYYYYY better also than these paint type coatings.
The paint stuff cannot come close to the capabilites of header wrap and swaintech.
Not to bash you shodan, sorry if it sounded like I am, but I just want people to know that for $250+, that paint stuff really isn't worth it. I have still melted things near my mani with the paint stuff, with header wrap, never had any problems.
I've said my piece.....you spend your money where you want...it doesn't matter to me.
The paint stuff cannot come close to the capabilites of header wrap and swaintech.
Not to bash you shodan, sorry if it sounded like I am, but I just want people to know that for $250+, that paint stuff really isn't worth it. I have still melted things near my mani with the paint stuff, with header wrap, never had any problems.
I've said my piece.....you spend your money where you want...it doesn't matter to me.
02-12-2007, 11:58 AM
#12
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I had Swaintech coat my mani/dp/turbine housing and I can tell you this **** is top notch and it's tough. I had to grind some off to get some of the DP nuts to thread on and I went through a few dremel bits grinding it off.
Does it work? Hell yes. Last time I dynoed my car I took my IR temp gun with me and the hottest temps I was seeing at the end of the runs was around 550F (at the collector). The runners ranged from 350 to 400F. This was during a dyno session that was over an hour(tuning new cams, working with cam gears and part throttle tuning). I realize temps will be higher when hot lapping, but I have seen manifolds glow on the dyno.
Does it work? Hell yes. Last time I dynoed my car I took my IR temp gun with me and the hottest temps I was seeing at the end of the runs was around 550F (at the collector). The runners ranged from 350 to 400F. This was during a dyno session that was over an hour(tuning new cams, working with cam gears and part throttle tuning). I realize temps will be higher when hot lapping, but I have seen manifolds glow on the dyno.
02-12-2007, 12:19 PM
#13
Re: (mike1114)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">swaintech is still WAYYYYYY better also than these paint type coatings.
The paint stuff cannot come close to the capabilites of header wrap and swaintech.
Not to bash you shodan, sorry if it sounded like I am, but I just want people to know that for $250+, that paint stuff really isn't worth it. I have still melted things near my mani with the paint stuff, with header wrap, never had any problems.
I've said my piece.....you spend your money where you want...it doesn't matter to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Try mine next time, and let me know what you think. i'm not the average bear. If you don't like it, I recoat it for free..
I know that type of material that Swain uses, and its great stuff. But its availability keeps it rather expensive, since that is ALL that they do, and we do it more as a service to the client. Turbos are our area of experience, not just coatings.
The paint stuff cannot come close to the capabilites of header wrap and swaintech.
Not to bash you shodan, sorry if it sounded like I am, but I just want people to know that for $250+, that paint stuff really isn't worth it. I have still melted things near my mani with the paint stuff, with header wrap, never had any problems.
I've said my piece.....you spend your money where you want...it doesn't matter to me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Try mine next time, and let me know what you think. i'm not the average bear. If you don't like it, I recoat it for free..
I know that type of material that Swain uses, and its great stuff. But its availability keeps it rather expensive, since that is ALL that they do, and we do it more as a service to the client. Turbos are our area of experience, not just coatings.
02-12-2007, 02:30 PM
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Re: (turbozxi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbozxi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can heat wrap it afterwards without worring about it rusting, then you will get a genuine reduction in under bonnet temps,keep the heat in the mani and much less likely to burn yourself when working around it .</TD></TR></TABLE>
02-12-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: (B18Flip)
After about 5k miles and 300+whp.... The turbo was still blingin' when I sold it.
More of TheShodan's coatings....
Different light and different camera....
More of TheShodan's coatings....
Different light and different camera....
02-13-2007, 10:53 AM
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Re: (mike1114)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The paint on stuff like hyperkote doesn't do **** for keeping in heat, scratches easily, discolors over time and plain out wasn't worth it.
edit.....my sheit looked just like shodan's for a month, then it discolors to a grey color (like faded black jeans) and it doesn't help for keeping heat in. I agree with almost everything shodan says, he's very knowledgeable. But not on this topic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had my FR manifold coated by TheShodan and have not experienced any of these problems you are speaking of. His coatings are top notch
edit.....my sheit looked just like shodan's for a month, then it discolors to a grey color (like faded black jeans) and it doesn't help for keeping heat in. I agree with almost everything shodan says, he's very knowledgeable. But not on this topic.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I had my FR manifold coated by TheShodan and have not experienced any of these problems you are speaking of. His coatings are top notch
02-13-2007, 11:24 AM
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Re: (White Smoke)
guess we'll have to agree to disagree....swaintech or header wrap ONLY for me.
Honestly, I don't care what it looks like after abuse, I want it to keep heat in, thats its function.
Honestly, I don't care what it looks like after abuse, I want it to keep heat in, thats its function.
02-13-2007, 12:34 PM
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Re: (mike1114)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">swaintech or header wrap ONLY for me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
How can you recommend header wrap when it is know to cause your manifold to corrode 10x faster.
How can you recommend header wrap when it is know to cause your manifold to corrode 10x faster.
02-13-2007, 12:35 PM
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Re: (mike1114)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike1114 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">guess we'll have to agree to disagree....swaintech or header wrap ONLY for me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have measured the radiated heat (before vs after) myself using the spray-on black stuff and it made a HUGE difference. I have also used it for many years and, so far, I have had no problems with it wearing off.
I have measured the radiated heat (before vs after) myself using the spray-on black stuff and it made a HUGE difference. I have also used it for many years and, so far, I have had no problems with it wearing off.
02-13-2007, 12:36 PM
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Re: (Turbocivic94)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbocivic94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Chris got the red pill turbo lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
Not anymore....
I bought me a new one.
Not anymore....
I bought me a new one.
02-13-2007, 01:34 PM
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Re: (TurboJesse)
I cant say on how much it does performance wise, but as far as looks and keeping the material from rusting out, it does help especially if its mild steel. Ceramic coating is on the valve cover and the header on this pic.