efHondefender

here's the setup:
motor: B18c1 CSS block, LS crank, gsr head, gsr cams, 10:1 Mahle pistons, Manley H-beams
Turbo: Hy35 holset

Want to make 400ish whp. What's a decent cast manifold for this goal? Trying to be cheap and reliable for daily use. Are the SPA manifolds decent? I'm just not sure what has been proven to flow well with good wastegate placement as well.

phaphon

That's probably your only option to make 400 is the spa top mount cast. I rather fork out the cash for tubular log

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I completely agree. Most cast logs for these engines are for 5 bolt FORD style turbine housings.

Using an SPA top mount requires you to use a special clocking flange, and in some cases, depending upon turbo, you have to cut the hood of the car..

Oil return line rotting can get a little tricky unless making your own..

So even when it's cheap, costs increase in other areas

boosted94gsr

For a vtec head go with a tubular equal length manifold. If you just want a cheap cast manifold that will work ok but definitely not ideal you can get them on eBay for $60 shipped. That's what I have on my ls turbo and it works fine for my goals. Vtec head is best matched with an equal length imo.

boosted94gsr

1988 1991 Honda CRX B16 B18 B20 Engine Cast Iron Honda B Series Turbo Manifold | eBay

This is the exact one I'm running. Wg placement is good, no boost creep issues at all. I'm also running it with a 4 bolt hotside (precision 5431e) and 3" dp with the compressor on the driver side. I did have to move my radiator over about an inch to clear the dp. Again this will work ok but if funds are available go with a equal length instead.

efHondefender

I guess I should also say that this is going into an EK civic.
I definitely refuse to believe that 400+whp can't be made with a plethora of cast manifolds out there.
Didn't Evan's tuning go 9's on an inline pro manifold?
I absolutely refuse to go with a tubular manifold. I drive this car 60 miles a day and I already have tons of money wrapped up in my mr2 drag car's tubular divided t4 manifold. I only have enough budget for one drag car.
I'm just trying to pep up my daily driver on the cheapo. Hence the use of an HY35 turbo. I'm not gonna run a $150 turbo on a $750 manifold.
I'm basically just trying to figure out what manifold will work with this holset and flow enough for a decent amount of power. The inline pro manifolds look nice, but too pricey for my goal.
I do like the SPA top mount, but I'm not sure if the compressor will clear the hood on this holset. This guy is pulling it off in his integra. https://honda-tech.com/attachments/f...-integra-3.jpg
What about the SPA bottom mount? Or the CX racing?

Honda B Series Turbo Manifold - spaturbousa

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-SERIES-B18-B18C-B16-GSR-SI-CAST-IRON-TURBO-MANIFOLD-/290555932996?hash=item43a67bb144&vxp=mtr

phaphon

I never said a spa manifold or a cast manifold wouldn't work . But I'm sure you can find a tubular log manifold for cheap. Also I've found a mini ram set up for 300 bucks before .

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Check out the HT marketplace. There's a pretty healthy range of options there. Personally, I'm eyeballing DNA's Blurr manifold. I'd hope $138 for the manifold plus $60-$70 for the downpipe would be within your budget, or you may need to re-evaluate your goals.

Forced Induction - Honda-Tech

efHondefender

Mini rams are nice, but still more prone to cracking than a cast manifold. I can't think of anything worse than a pipe style log manifold, though. All of the unreliability of a welded manifold with even worse flow than a cast manifold and still more expensive. It's a lose lose lose.

efHondefender

I'll make the down pipe myself. I have an HTP221 in the garage. I know I know... before you say it I already know you're thinking "damn dude, if you have that, then what the hell are you looking at cast manifolds and not building your own."
A couple reasons: 1: I don't have time. 2: it would still cost me more money in materials 3: it would still be less reliable.

I can afford something nice if I wanted, but I don't need anything nice to make 400whp. The money I save here can go towards something else or better yet, go towards my 9 second mr2 goal.
I really didn't even want to do this project, but the Honda scene around STL is truly sad. I've seen H22 swapped hatches run upper 14's at like 91mph. **** that doesn't even make sense like this kid around town that had a crappy LS swapped hatch with a couple bolt ons that would somehow beat vtec b series swapped crx's that were a few hundred pounds lighter with probably 30 more hp. It's just that nobodies stuff ever runs right because they can never scrounge up the last couple dollars to make it correct.
It's depressing.

So I decided to show them how it can be done for very very little money. That is the purpose of this build. 400whp for the least amount of money. So far, I'm doing pretty good. I buy parts in bundles and then sell what I don't need. As of now, I have: B18c1 block, LS crank, oil pan, GSR intake manifold, TB and cams for a net total out of pocket of $65 LOL. I got a set of NIB Mahle pistons and some good used Manley H beams for $400 total. The CSS and machine work is being paid for with some old k24 blocks that I had laying around that had already paid for themselves. Traded a pair of old slicks for a GSR transmission. I'm converting a $20 obd1 ecu (auto non vtec) to be ready for Hondata and I got a jumper for free. Holset is $150 and I have some random duramax piping that I bought at a swap meet for $1 a pipe (70 pipes with t bolt clamps and couplers) that I'll be using.
I mean, this really is gonna be the cheapest build ever. So I need to buy an appropriately ridiculously cheap turbo manifold.

efHondefender

Ok, now this is funny... That's a SPA bottom mount replica for $25 new. ROFL wonder if that'll work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cast-iorn-Honda-TURBO-MANIFOLD-Wastegate-Acura-civic-integra-b16-b18-/221766249620?hash=item33a24c6c94&vxp=mtr

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

If you want ridiculously cheap, then go rip something off a Saab in a junkyard, cut the flange off, and weld a Honda flange on

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Comments in blue. I think I have to make this post a "pop-up" book style, with lots of pictures and simple explanations so that people can visualize these items and get on the same page. No disrespect to anyone, but sometimes, you gotta go back to basics to come to common ground.

Don't expect to bolt up with either of these, as they never had the HY Holset in mind. Again, Garrett-Styled turbos. But if you try it, be prepared to do some serious work to get it to fit. Not a lost cause, but.. you have to be willing to do what it takes.

*sigh*Sorry for the book all, but OP , you just have to dig deeper than what you're doing and ask yourself what you're willing to do once you get the answer to these.

*edit* shortly after posting this, I saw efHondefender's response to NotARacist and his reasoning behind this.... I now see I wasted my time as he's going to continue to post up these cheap manifolds asking if they work.. ..

My apologies for wasting everyone's eyeballs

efHondefender

LOL. Now that's a little too cheap. Remember, it still has to make 400whp. You got me looking at some used spoolin performance mini rams over in the market place though.
I've decided that I'd be willing to build my own manifold if I can find someone local that'll let me borrow there's so I can build a jig for flange positions. I drive my car every day, so I can't have it down for me to use it to mock up a manifold.
I can build a manifold off of the motor on the stand if I know where the flanges need to be.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, there are a decent number of decent options in the marketplace.

Also, Shodan just hit you with a wall o' text, but you really should read all of it. Dude knows his **** - he won't steer you in the wrong direction. There's a big difference between "cheap and effective" and "cheap for the sake of being cheap". Cheap for the sake of being cheap will leave you broke, after you've had to buy a replacement for the same part three times in a row. Affordable quality over "lol $25" any day of the week.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Thanks. sorry about that.. I try not be as bad as Wantboost, but we both type over 140-160wpm. Phones are for talkin', not writin'..

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Sometimes you have to be wordy to get all of your thoughts down on paper (or a screen, or...whatever medium you're working with).

Also, you aren't the only two with triple digit typing speeds

efHondefender

Ok I get it. You guys are probably very used to dealing with broke kids with no money and even less know how.
Please do not confuse me for that. I'm a 34 year old man with a tig welder and a band saw along with any other tool I could need for this project. I restore corvettes from the ground up and they sell on nationally televised auctions.
Dealing with problems is not an issue for me. Building my mr2 drag car is 52.589 thousand times more difficult than trying to figure out how to get a Holset hy35 on a bseries honda.
This is what I was hoping for when I made this thread... "sure guy. so and so used xyz cast manifold with a holset and it cleared just fine and made world ending whp"
I knew it wouldn't be that simple, but I tried anyway because I was getting tired of google searching. Although I think my question has been answered in that build thread link that Shodan gave me.
Just for fun though, what do you guys really think is so much different about a $150 name brand cast manifold and a $85 ebay replica? Obviously, if we were talking about hand built stainless tubular manifolds, then there are huge quality differences, but that's not what we are talking about. We're talking about nodular cast iron poured into a sand casting. I could probably make one in my back yard if I had someone's name brand manifold to make a mold from and it would do the exact same thing. I bet that $25 SPA bottom mount knock off works every bit as good as the original. Maybe there are mild QC discrepancies, but nothing that would matter too much. Especially considering the price difference.

That said, I'm not condoning cheap chinese products in general. I absolutely will not buy a tool from harbor freight. I just think that the durability of chinese cast iron manifolds are not really of great concern. My last tubular, equal length manifold that I owned was a Greddy piece from a very rare and very expensive old T78 turbo kit designed for an MR2 3sgte. It was cracked to hell and back from a couple years of use. And not just the welds. Actually, just about everywhere except the welds. It had radial cracks running around the primaries in places. It's funny what heat cycles in extremes can do to a bunch of separate pieces of pipe welded together all trying to move in different directions with stresses built in from the initial fabrication. I'd be willing to bet on that $25 cast manifold lasting longer without cracking than most of the tubular manifolds on the market that cost over 20x the amount. Not that a cast iron manifold won't crack. Factory 3sgte and 4g63 manifolds always crack and they had a way more money dumped into the design of those than any of these aftermarket offerings have. So again, what difference does it make. The only one that truly stands out is the inline pro piece, but that's only because it's cast stainless.

Please don't even consider down pipe issue. I'll do whatever it takes for that. I'm not one of those people that order a bunch of parts and expect them to all just snap together like an erector set.

phaphon

Mines well just get a eBay cast manifold and see if you will make your power goal seems like you have your mind set