accord_raffi

So in September, I took out the subs and amp and noticed a change in AFR's. It was significant and no, i wasn't being a dumb noob lol. under normal driving it started driving leaner, around mid 16's. When i let off throttle, the afr's would go rich and then - - - as if i had a BOV on a car with an MAF. Also, at WOT, I would get numbers around 13.5/6 which were around high 12's before. I told my tuner about it and he said those are weird symptoms. I got a new wideband when i got my downpipe redone, but i read the same numbers. Last night i went for a drive. I checked 4th gear from about 3.5k to 5k and i read 14.1. I haven't changed anything on the car since the first tune. I have slight oil leaking into my middle two plugs but that's been a problem since day 1 and I don't think that would cause the problem. I checked 2nd gear from around 2k to 5k in my neighborhood after with similar results. Like I said, I've changed nothing but it seems to be getting leaner as time goes on. I'm going to try reading through the site for some things i can check out. Help me out guys. thanks!

boostedcivicsir

fuel pump and filter condition?

also hows the weather from when it was tuned?

ecu setup open or closed loop?

accord_raffi

It's the stock fuel pump and the filter has not been changed yet b/c it's such a pain in my car to get to it lol.
I tuned it in MA. during mid july and i'm still in MA.
As for the ecu setup, I believe it's open loop now. I'm gonna read online the differences between the two again and make sure i have that info right for you.

accord_raffi

Correct me if i'm wrong, but closed loop means the ecu is using measurements from the o2 sensors to help provide sufficient fuel. My cars is obd2 and i removed my cat and 2nd o2 and i had it tuned on Crome. It must be running open loop then b/c it's not using the second o2 right?

boostedcivicsir

open = runs off the inputs from map, tps, ,iat and ect. basically whats in the chip.

closed = all that and input from the o2 sensor

SovXietday

Put a Walbro in the friggen thing.

Also, your car will spike slightly rich when you get off the throttle, it shouldn't be nearly as bad as a MAF car but it should still spike slightly.

accord_raffi

I thought about it but it's not really a necessity. I'm not even at 6psi so i'm not making enough power to make that a necessity. When i retune for 10psi, i'll probably install one. The stock one is good for 300hp.
As for the spiking, it's been doing it more than before i removed the subs. I still don't understand how the subs being removed could be the reason for affecting anything...it must have been a coincidence or something when things got leaner the first time.
Do MAP sensors kind of "wear out" and fail? or do they just crap out all at once?

DOHC_16v

I had similar problems when my fuel pump was on its way out, except it was only in boost, AFRs were normal in low load situations. But it was a Bosch pump, in a VW.
Check your fuel pressure and wire up a multi meter or volt gauge to the fuel pump wires

boostedcivicsir

your engine is not worth a 100$ and at most an hour of work? it is obvious that you have something goin south. and where did you hear the stock pump is rated to 300? im just curious.

accord_raffi

Matt Koestner from Dent Sport Garage in Norwood, MA told me it was rated at 300. I was planning on doing one until he told me it was not a must considering my car was not going to put out near that power. I was not trying to cheap out on my build when I did it, just trying to be cost efficient. After the $3.5-4k I put into it, my motor blowing is the last thing I want. I'm going to check out fuel pressure as soon as I can and most likely order up a Walbro even if it's not the problem. The more I think of it, that could be the issue. What do you think? Other than that, i'm going to try to check the MAP and the primary o2. Thanks for the help so far guys. Lemme know if i'm on the right track.

accord_raffi

So i did some diagnostics tonight. We checked the ohms on the fuel injectors (450cc dsm's) and they were all the same at .003. Next we checked the FPR by doing a vacuum check and a rail pressure check. Everything seemed fine there. There are no vacuum leaks. We checked the fuel pump relay and that seemed to be fine as well. We tried to warm up the air by blocking off the intercooler just to see if weather was an issue since we tuned it in july, but the afr's stayed the same as i thought they would. A simulation, if you will. The intercooler was surprisingly warmer when we touched the endtanks.
I'm going to start with the fuel filter and replace that. Hopefully that will get me somewhere, and if not, it's just good maintenance haha.

supraccordlx

1. it's cold
2. you're an idiot for having a stock fuel pump
3. you're not running obd2 on crome
4. don't try to justify your stupidity.

accord_raffi

Are you serious right now? It's not much colder now that it was two weeks ago...maybe by two degrees. If you're right (which you're not), then this should have happened since like mid december. You probably don't have to deal with this much in Kentucky. When someone who is highly respected amongst honda tuners says it is okay for me to not use a Walbro, I'm going to listen to him. No **** i'm not running obd2 on Crome. The ONLY reason i mentioned OBD2 in my previous post was because the question of open/closed loop ecu's came up. Since my car originally uses both sensors, I was wondering if it was considered Open loop now that the second one was removed. Thinking it over now, it was a dumb question, but what's even dumber is an idiot like you posting your lame opinion without any justification behind any of them. I might have taken you seriously if you had put some reasoning behind your thought.

supraccordlx

lol. You would be to big of a moron to understand any input. Oh and if your "tuner" is so highly respected then why isn't he trouble shooting the car, tuners are trouble shooters and will know more about your car then wanna be ht e-mechanics.

accord_raffi

...you're dumb and obviously too smart for honda-tech based on your statements. please leave this thread. I like talking to people who are intelligent and willing to help. It must be the diesel fumes in the south or something that got to you. If it gets to the point where i need to be charged for dyno hours, then I will go down. I'm calling him tomorrow anyway. I did my fuel filter today with no change in results. I know it's not the fpr. New fuel pump will be ordered soon.

boostedcivicsir

ok he knows he needs a fuel pump. replax please. it would be nice to see where the fuel pressure is.

supraccordlx

lol oh the irony.

accord_raffi

Alright, I don't understand why you are still coming back. Your life must be awful if you're trying to make yourself sound better than someone else over an internet forum. Once your ***** drop, get back to me.

supraccordlx

silly noobs.

accord_raffi

now i'm just laughing at you. still here for advice from others. thanks guys.

supraccordlx

What do you need advice on? everything has been answered already.

1.) Put the new few pump and hopefully you had enough common sense to get a walbro.
2.) Make sure your IAT is hooked up correctly.
3.) You 02 bung is prob to close to the exhaust gasses causing a bad 02 read out.
4.) You are tuned on crome which also had issue with the closed loop timing settings going wild.
5.) Eprom chip loose/ going bad
6.) Take it to your tuner and let him fix it if the fuel pump doesn't fix it, again he knows the car more then any of us do.

We can only help you if you're able to help yourself.

VtecnTurbo

ok the fuel pump may not the issue here, even though an upgraded fuel pump is always a plus. if he had all his sub and amps in the car when it was tuned, now that he has taken all of it out his tuner may to adjust his battery offset.
to check turn of everything in the car do a quick pull
then turn on everything lights, heat on high, rear defroster radio, and do a pull

if the afr are different you found your problem.

3) if his o2 was in a bad spot his new wideband would not change the afr from when his tuner tuned it
5)loose eprom give solid cels not leaner afrs by 1.5%
its a tuning issue as mentioned above have your tuner look over your maps

accord_raffi

Alright thanks for your input you guys. I'm going to try doing the pulls you suggested as soon as the weather clears up. We just got like the worst combo of snow and rain today . Someone also suggested it may be just the battery offset tables when i first noticed differences from pulling the subs, but I did not think it was something that progressively got worse. I'm gonna have to start reading more on this electrical stuff.

supraccordlx

I seriously doubt the subs were making a difference on the street tune unless you was g-thuggin it up while the tuner was at his work. I would highly doubt they were even on at the time, you have problems else where ie fuel pump, clogged injectors, bad resistor box if you have one, etc.

If the subs and amp where not on then you're not drawing anything, so the injectors pulse shouldn't been altered when removing the subs.

accord_raffi

Ya i had everything off before the tuning started which is why I didn't think it was a tune issue in the past. It was really weird how the numbers changed after the first start up after removal though like i mentioned in my first post. I tried to get a hold of my tuner today, but he wasn't in so i'm going to try again tomorrow. I might be able to get my hands on a fuel pressure gauge today so we'll see what that reads.

I did a real cheaply-rigged test for the hell of it for pressure. I'm not really paying attention to those numbers. My friend told me that on a failing pump, if a car doesn't fill a gallon up in 8 minutes the fuel pump definitely needs replaceing. A 1 gallon/per 8 minutes rate is like a bare minimum. I am well aware it's a shoddy testing method but i figured i'd try it anyway. It seemed to be filling up at a rate that would have made it but i cut the test short cuz it wasn't worth the gas lol. I'll get a real pressure gauge and see what i get out of that.