Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys this is my first build thread on HT and after being part of community for almost 3 years I feel like its my turn to contribute something for the archives.

When I first bought my car





It had a rough body kit and a high heat score color. Luckily I had an opportunity to paint it and I decided to go for a semi gloss black at the time. Excuse the wheels I'm having troubles deciding what wheels to go for.

Army green primer coat after prep



Black coat flashing off



After a few days of drying







Then after some debate of swapping or just turboing the D, I decided to hunt for a B series and found a JDM B16A soon after for an excellent deal.







After about a year of saving for the build and slowly buying parts and doing lots of research here on the forums I acquired enough knowledge to know what I wanted to do. My current parts list starting from the head is:

99 Spec ITR Cams
AEM 5 Bolt Cam Gears
ITR Valve Train
ITR exhaust valves with 3 angle valve job on exhaust seats
New valve stems
Cometic 81.5 head gasket

3 Angle Valve Seats



New exhaust valves in





Bottom End:

81.5 mm bore
81.5 mm Mahle 9.5:1 forged pistons
Stock B16A rods with ARP rod bolts
ARP Head Studs
Crank Polish
New ACL bearings
Black Path blockguard













Full Parts List:
99 Spec ITR Cams
AEM 5 Bolt Cam Gears
ITR Valve Train
ITR exhaust valves with 3 angle valve job on exhaust seats
New valve stems
Cometic 81.5 head gasket

81.5 mm bore
81.5 mm Mahle 9.5:1 forged pistons
Stock B16A rods with ARP rod bolts
ARP Head Studs
Crank Polish
New ACL bearings
Black Path blockguard

GT3251B Turbo (Courtesy of TheShodan)
Blueridge Motorsports Ramhorn Manifold (Excellent deal of HT marketplace)
Tial 38mm MVS Wastegate
FIC 650 CC injectors
Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump


While the engine was out I also decided to do a decent wire tuck and paint my engine bay.

Before:





After:





More to come to stay tuned.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Wait, you're using a block guard, but stock rotating assembly? The rods are the weak point in a stock engine, not the sleeves...

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Did you say stock rods with aftermarket pistons? That's weird. Why drop the compression? I'm not familiar with that specific block guard, but I know a lot of people don't approve of them. What's the power goal? Aside from couple strange choices,the car looks good to me (from the photos).

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Lowering compression is the oldschool way of doing things. Now that we have REAL EMS options that don't cost an arm and a leg, raised compression and boost is perfectly doable. I didn't even notice the aftermarket pistons...does Mahle make a piston for press-in pins? Looking at the piston, though, it looks like a floating pin (you can see the retaining clip groove). How exactly did you make that work out?

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

I used the block guard so I can add more boost safely as well as the forged pistons. If installed by a machine shop before the honing and decking it can be beneficial. Also for my horsepower goal of around 300 whp, stock rods with arp rod bolts are apparently pretty damn good according to research I've done.

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

For the pistons my machinist said the circlips aren't and that the wrist pins can just be pressed in. Apparently floating pins are just an option but not necessary and don't add that much benefit for the investment on my set up

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Uh...does your machinist work with Hondas much? Their opinions on press vs. floating pin is contrary to EVERYTHING that has ever been talked about here. I'd be curious to see what your play is from that kind of setup...so just to make sure I understand, your machinist PRESSED the wrist pins into those FLOATING PIN pistons? Exactly what wrist pins did s/he use?

As far as your rods, the rod bolts are always a good idea regardless of target power with FI, but the issue isn't so much the rod bolts as it is how pencil thin those rods are. Extended FI use will bend those suckers until they snap like the twigs they are.

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

b16a rods aren't really that thin to start with, even when compared to aftermarket rods. people boost stock b16a's to over 350whp and its always ringlands that seem to go on stock pistons rather than rods. And yes my machinist works with hondas regularly and told me that the circlips are for a floating pin set up and only an option for those particular pistons and they needed to be pressed in yes. The pins came with the pistons.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

"Aren't really that thin"? You must be crazy. They're a sub-par design, the flats of the beam are half as wide, and the metal itself is half as thick.

Detonation kills ringlands, not power. Detonation and power can BOTH kill rods.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

You should have just left it stock for 300 wHP. 350 may require rods and pistons. Just note rods AND pistons. The forged bottom end internals are key for higher power levels and they go hand in hand. You shouldn't skimp on one.

NotaRacist sort of nailed it. The sleeves are good for like 500 HP. The pistons are not.

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

There are a lot of opinions out there. Not saying you're wrong and looking back maybe I should have gone for rods as well but I was told for my horsepower goals the stock rods with arp rod bolts are definitely good enough

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

b16 rods are weak...

and the problem you have with the forged piston stock rod deal is while the rod might use a press fit pin the piston uses a floating pin

the pins for the two methods are sized differently and are a different material. you can't press the wristpin in then not put the circlips on the pistons to hold them in place.

standard practice is to hone the little end of the rod to accommodate the floating wrist pin... but normally only NA guys do it when they bump compression, in a turbo build you've now made the stock rods the weak link... and when they fail it will be dramatic and most likely result in totally destroying your block beyond the point of useable


you need to reevaluate your build, the way you're doing things, and you probably need to find a new machinist.... but hey, I always heard the Canadians did things backwards :p

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

Well thanks for input but at this point its done. Like I said its my first build and I worked hard to get the parts and if the machinist made a mistake then I'll definitely make a point of that. That shop put together turbo hondas before and many other engines so I trusted their opinion.

92frostwhtdb2

Hope it works out for you goodluck with the build as long as your having fun with the process, its all trial and error expensive trial and error but thats the hobby !!

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

Well it has been fun but if the machine shop f***ed up then I should definitely ask around because its not too late to pull it apart. I haven't started it yet

*Yea I called them and they said since I'm using stock rods a press fit will do just fine. Also B16A rod failing point is pretty up in the air and theres no proof of any of your words. Lots of people run stock B16A rods for long periods of time without issue. https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/stock-b16-rod-failing-point-boosted-3042027/

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

long periods of time... sure. WITH STOCK PISTONS

you've now shifted the failure point to the rods. So instead of cracking a ringland as a warning you're pushing the motor too far you will now throw a rod instead

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

With 300 whp I'll be fine... Good tuning is key but thanks I'll let you know if you were right :D... Might be a while though

KevinEF7

Making Canada look bad, how could you.

Youre motor setup is wrong obviously as easily caught by the other members, complete *** backwards setup and a waste of money internally

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

Holy making Canada look bad? Thats pretty low comment, pretty supportive community I see. Its my first build and I took the opinion of more than one person and if they were wrong and I also being wrong for listening then so be it I guess I'll learn from it and teach on. So please if you don't want to be supportive of a fellow trying to put a decent build on the street go away

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Go for it man! Get it tuned and show these guys that you can push as much power as you want, reliably, daily and without breaking the bank.

I've seen 500 HP out of a stock B16A block, we all have. Doesn't mean it will last.

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

Can't tell if thats sarcastic or not but I won't be able to push as much as I want that for sure. There is a limit I just won't go above it.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

It's a little bit of both Seriously, go for it. Pretty much everyone will tell you it isn't a good idea, me included. But if you want to, no one is stopping you.

The Honda-Tech 'crew' is weird about things like this. The way they express themselves isn't very polite. I'm sure most of it is concern. No one wants to see someone get burned because they weren't informed of something that is considered 'common' knowledge. That's where this lands. Rods and Pistons are a combo deal because the connecting systems used are different.

Think of this. It's like a front end conversion. You can't just replace the bumper because it won't line up with anything else. And if you just hack the hood and fenders to get it to fit, it's just not right. So you get new fenders and a new hood to match the bumper. Same sort of thing, except it's dangerous, instead of just looking bad, in this case.

My last statement was mostly to drive home the fact that 300 wHP on a stock block is very achievable. You can definitely manage more and with E85 it can be fairly reliable. For a 350 wHP build, I would have just shot for 300-350 and gone to a very reputable tuner. You'd probably only need ARP headstuds to go along with the stock motor.

I will apologize for the dickness you've received, but you should definitely rethink this.

Xanthias

iTrader: (1)

Originally I was going to buy rods as well and I had a number of people in town that I respect and trust tell me for that horsepower goal that its not necessary. I really wanted to build something awesome and for 500 extra bucks its not like I wouldn't have gone for rods. Everything else in the engine is awesome I even put arp rod bolts on the rods to get a bit more insurance. The main reason I did not buy aftermarket rods is because my machinist whom I trust the most, considering they have built hundreds of engines told me to keep stock B16A rods because they are forged from factory and nitrided as well shot peened. He told me that hes open a brand new set of eagle rods and they had cracks in them while he told me mine are mint condition with no micro fractures and such. Maybe hes had a bad experience but these are all the reasons I went with stock rods so before people judge they should understand why people make certain decisions. Also I don't know who you people are. I respect your opinions but I don't know who you are or your background and whether you are actually intelligent or just some ricer talking out of their ***

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

I'm a ricer talking out of my ***. Most people can vouch for that. All my information is based on internet stories. I drive a Honda Civic with a body kit and a $50 paint job.

Go with what your machinist said and hopefully it will work out.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

^lololol