EFIGUY

Here is a link to a video that Arturbo made while we were dyno testing an engine one day on the engine dyno.

http://www.autronic.com/bin/Autronic_1cell.mov


The engine is being run on an Autronic PnP Honda ECU.
The video was designed to show the power of the Autronic and how easy it can be to get an engine up and running and very quickly tuned versus other systems.
It takes less than an hour to go from non-running car, to having something that makes great power, holds consistently good A/F ratios, starts everyday when cold, and has terrific driveability without constant tweaking.

We did not use any of the auto-tune features in the video.

The Autronic software works differently than most others out there {including the big name brands}

The Autronic software has a very complex modeling software built into the background of the software to actually predict the airflow of your engine based on a few simple parameters you put in during setup.

Once the model is complete {which you never see behind the scenes} the software is so powerful that it can run your engine very well with on ly one single cell in the table.

You can, of course have as many cells as you want{up to 512}, but what you find out is that when you are all finished tuning the engine, almost all the cells have the same number or something very close so the table looks very flat in 3D.

With all other brands YOU the tuner, must create the "model" of the the engine's airflow by placing bigger or smaller numbers in the base fuel table until your 3D image looks just like the engine's airflow curve.

With the Autronics doing the modle for you, the base fuel table is simply used as a way for the tuner to tell the software when the engine's actual airflow doesn't match the model it created. The model is typically very accurate {as evidenced by the fact that most numbers in the base fuel table are the same or very close}

How good is it at modeling the engine? Watch the video again. No tricks, no slight-of-hand, just basic math and lots of it.
This video was done with a high compression N/A engine, but the software works just the same even on turbo'd cars!

Using the AutoTune feature simply allows you to operate the engine in various RPM and load cells and the ECU modifies the numbers in each cell to tune the engine with no input from the user. Its really cool to watch and its amazing how fast the ECU can tune itself on the dyno, but on the street it might be easier for a good tuner to do it manually since its hard to hold a constant load and RPM.

Just thought you guys might like to see it!

wade

iTrader: (1)

Mine does that too! yayyy

gotta love it, one up for autronic


Modified by wade at 2:49 PM 1/25/2005

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I have heard a little bit about this. Its kinda cool that you can take a motor and just make it into a giant math problem. Well more physics than math, but its still cool.

YiNYaNg

blundar

We all know you're a pimp, thanks for sharing. Was really interesting to see, and gave me some insight and ideas for my own work.

Thanks Ben!

wade

iTrader: (1)

Ben, we will keep u up to date how my dyno goes once the turbo kit is added

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

that was very interesting to see. Great stuff.

5thgencivic

Woah!

SOHC_MShue

I'm confused as to what is going on here. Can you explain a little more in detail about how it runs it with only one cell? Sorry for the noobish question

beepy

So the single cell is a baseline mixture, and the unit is tuning that single cell using a target AFR?

That's nothing. The Megasquirt doesn't even need 1 complete cell to start with. Just plug in target AFRs and it runs, albeit a bit rough for the first several cycles.

EFIGUY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the single cell is a baseline mixture, and the unit is tuning that single cell using a target AFR?

That's nothing. The Megasquirt doesn't even need 1 complete cell to start with. Just plug in target AFRs and it runs, albeit a bit rough for the first several cycles.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ECU isn't tuning that single cell. Its simply using the value that the tuner puts into that cell as part of the prediction model for every other enigne speed vs load point. There are no more cells, yet the engine runs smoothly and makes good power, and starts well, and has good accel enrichment, etc etc

I'm quite certain that the MS doesn't operate that way.

I do think the MS is a very cool system, but it operates differently than what has been showm here.

Suprdave

Talk about a fast tune-up...Now all the Autronic gods have to do, is make it work with other brand of Wideband Sensors...and I'm sold

EFIGUY

done.

The New SM4 {very soon to be released} has a scale-able wideband inout for use with other meters!

.dave

Thats pretty damn cool.

What parameters need to be entered?

EFIGUY

The overall fuel multiplier is a combined function of cylinder dimensions, and injector flow rate, the engine's static compression ratio is used for part of the equation, and the target A/F ratios are needed for each RPM/Load point you want as well.

once you get the first cell in the table to match its corresponding Target, the rest is done behind the scenes.

Cole D

That's a really nice program but I'm not sure about the price $1750 is really expensive any groupbuys or HT discounts ?

Chris


Modified by Cole D at 4:26 AM 1/26/2005

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFIGUY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ECU isn't tuning that single cell. Its simply using the value that the tuner puts into that cell as part of the prediction model for every other enigne speed vs load point. There are no more cells, yet the engine runs smoothly and makes good power, and starts well, and has good accel enrichment, etc etc

I'm quite certain that the MS doesn't operate that way.

I do think the MS is a very cool system, but it operates differently than what has been showm here.</TD></TR></TABLE>
makes more sense to me now

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EFIGUY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The overall fuel multiplier is a combined function of cylinder dimensions, and injector flow rate, the engine's static compression ratio is used for part of the equation, and the target A/F ratios are needed for each RPM/Load point you want as well.

once you get the first cell in the table to match its corresponding Target, the rest is done behind the scenes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

nope FOR ms you have to put in the accel enrichments, but it does make a model of the fuel, by using the ideal gas law.

0xenocron

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cole D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please send me a pm on the cost of the autronic ecu w/ autotune for a obd1 p72 ecu.

Thanks Chris</TD></TR></TABLE>


Haha...this isnt like Uberdata my friend. You actually replace the stock Honda ECU board with one made by Autronic.

Good stuff Ben

Cole D

I messed up...... I meant to say board w autotune

wade

iTrader: (1)

i have the autronic PnP board, one of the few. i love it.

i noticed that vid was an NA DOHC VTEC engine makeing damn near 300whp at the crank, very nice!

EFIGUY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

nope FOR ms you have to put in the accel enrichments, but it does make a model of the fuel, by using the ideal gas law.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've always like Bowling and Grippo's work with the MS. They do a tremendous amount for people at little or no profit. And the system works pretty well to boot.

Using the Pv=NrT method of modeling an engine's airflow isn't too bad of a means to do it, if you know the V.

Good work guys!

blundar

isn't using PV=nRT with a correction for pumping efficiency (i.e. VE tables) called speed-density?

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

I believe it is called speed density as oppossed to alpha N. I am using MS on my RX7, I am putting it together in a few weeks. I am going to run a staged injection, they came out with a ton of upgrades for it on msn's. It is crazy, anything you would ever want. Jeff20B is also working on a wheel decoding ignition on a 20B and if he gets it going and I am going give it a shot with a 13b. I can't wait to give this thing a shot.

The fun thing is going from a normal way to tune a honda, and getting your game face on to look at the VE tables. VE= Volumetric efficiency.

tgreaves

I didnt see the video but from what im hearing this is alot like the boost comp tuning that you can do with the AEM EMS.. You tune rpm bands instead of load/rpm so you only have a few spots to tune and it will work great at any load point..