JeremyL

i know that sounds like a pretty wierd question but i was just wondering how boosted cars rack up to na cars. lets say you have an LS running 200hp at the wheels na and right next to it you have a boosted LS running the exact same 200whp, assuming that all else is equal on both cars including driver which car would be faster and why? I would think the boosted car should be faster since na cars have to rev so high to make power and with a good turbo setup you could easily have full boost around 3K rpm...am i wrong?

CzanSOHC

the dyno doesn't know if the car is NA or FI....

b18cya

remember, hp is rated at a certain RPM. the two hypothetical LS's you spoke about will have different torque curves, since one is boosted & one is all motor.

but HP is HP

BlueShadow

On FI and NA cars, even if two cars have the same peak WHP at the same RPM, the HP and TQ curve beneath the peak HP/TQ will not match.

JeremyL

well that much i do know and i would think that the na car no matter how much hp it made would have a much more linear curve than the boosted car, so would the times be equal?

underpressure02

I may be wrong so please do not flame on me. But here are my thoughts.
When I ride in a NA car it always feel slower then a turbo car because when the boost hits you feel that sudden urge of power where in a NA powered car I feel the power is more of a constant smooth power. As far as which car would be faster if both cars had the same exact HP I think that depends on a lot of external variables. For instance if your turbo car puts out 200 hp but has a great deal of turbo lag I would think the NA car would be faster until the turbo car builds up boost/power. Not sure if that helps or if I wasted your time.

ion_four

the only time one would be faster than the other is if there is a difference in their power curves, particularly torque (more torque accelerated more quickly).

mos

A normally asperated car can be just as laggy as a laggy turbo car with a huge turbo. It just depends on how it is setup. I would be suprised if a road race car tuned for high RPM had more power at low RPM than even a stock engined car. These race cars never see low rpm during competition, so the power down there is not even a consideration.

All other things being equal, the car where the torque peak occurs at a lower RPM will probably be "quicker" than a car with the same peak horsepower, but with a torque peak which occurs higher up the RPM scale. You cant tell much about a power curve's shape from just a peak HP # tho.

JCushing

dont forget gearing... most 200 hp n/a cars have some tight gearing wich will accelerate them faster.

wonny

So the answer would be:

The HP are the same - 200hp is 200hp.

Which one is faster? Dunno. It depends on the torque curve, given that everything else is the same.

UberTeg

hmmm, 200hp/200 ft/lbs torque, or 200hp 130 ft/lbs?

Tru Dynamix

from what ive seen, it seema a 200whp NA car will run faster than a 200whp turbo car. why? probably because the NA car has a better power curve throughout the whole rpm band. i dont know, but it seems most professional NA drag cars need less hp to run lower times than turbo cars do. but turbo h-p seems kinda inconsistent. most turbo cars on the dyno will have a huge jump in power when the turbo hits full boost where as most NA cars will have a smooth power curve (except when a small bit of vtec kicks in or watever else u have)

but i may be wrong.

CRVRX

A big factor is Torque. The boosted LS will make much more torque and alot sooner than the N/A car. This would help it pull the higher gears. So I would say with equal drivers and traction etc. the boosted car would be faster.

crx12

I've always thought NA cars went faster with less hp. How much horsepower is need to get a pro NA car to the low 10's. I think Ericks racing is about 325 at the wheels. How much power does it take a turbo car to get to the low tens? 450hp? I think NA cars just seem faster because most of them have around a 4.7 FD and short gears and lower weight than pro turbo cars. I think if you took a turbo motor making the same hp as ERE's and bolted it up to his tranny it would be nearly as fast but only because the car's suspension,chassis and tires would act differently and may slow it down some just like the reverse situation. Torque is all that matters and how high up in the revs you make torque makes the most difference. 200 ft lbs of tq at 7,000 rpm's is not as good as 200ft lbs at 9,000 rpm's. Remember hp is only calculated from tq at a given rpm.

Marauder

Wow....I have NEVER seen a boost 200 whp car be slower than a 200 whp NA car. Why....the boosted 200 whp car usually is making more torque in the useable shifting range. When racing, the boosted car's rpms should drop above the lag point of the turbo when shifting, therfore always pulling hard and having more air and fuel to burn than the NA car.

If the boosted car is not beating the NA car, the turbo setup is just wrong. Probably too big of a turbo and it lags most of the way through the powerband.

btw...we aren't talking 200 ft-lbs at 7k vs 9k. Its peak power of 200 hp.


[Modified by Marauder, 4:38 PM 1/3/2003]

JeremyL

well im gonna be using a small volvo T3 which should spool real fast and im gonna be running around 8lbs or whatever it takes to get 200 at the wheels, i would be very surprised if a 200whp BA car would be faster than a quick spooling 200whp turbo car

crx12

Which is easier to race a 200whp na car or turbo car. I would think it would be easier to screw up the launch in a turbo car. You rev to high and tires just light up. Would also be interesting to see a comparison of who is faster around a road course. Who would win then.
The ability to control your power just has to factor into this.

JeremyL

well the fact is a fast driver is going to be fast whether hes driving a fast turbo car or a fast na car, if both cars have the EXACT same suspension setups and tires the turbo car will still be faster for the same reason why a factory turbo car is always fatser thru the slalom than the same na car. more power quicker to pull it out of turns and more power available to get it down the straights quicker. until someone shows me hard numbers im gonna believe that boosted cars will rule na cars at similar power levels

and as far as screwing up the launch if you know your car your tires and your power curve you shouldnt have any problems, also i would think dragging a turbo car would ultimately put less strain on the drivetrain than a na car since you wont need to rev as high at the launch

UberTeg

yah, if u cant drive

SiRkid

no.
if you can drive and are properly set up, the turbo car will pull all the way!
got torque.

BudaKai

Turbo's make more torque now matter how much more HP the NA car has. NA cars get away with it by having a flatter torque band so they don't need crazy short gears or require knuckle splitting shifting skills. NA cars are easier to drive. Turbo cars set-up properly will always be faster up top where it counts. All the really fast cars are forced inducted.

JeremyL

i have a really hard time beleiving that at say 2500-3500 the na car would be making more useable torque than the turbo car, a small T3 would be hitting full boost at probably -3K whereas just about any na honda wont even be getting into its power curve until atleast +4500

fsp31

The easiest way to tell which engine really cranks out more power is to measure the AREA under the dyno graph. If two motors share the same peak HP, and only one is boosted, I'll bet dollars to donuts the boosted motor has a lot more acreage under the entirety of the dyno chart. Ultimately, the boosted motor wins, no matter what kind of gearing the N.A. car has. Shifting is shifting, and it hurts performance no matter who's hitting the lever.

Marauder

I'm with you there

I bet if you put up a 200 whp integra Type-R against the turbo civic I have driven, the turbo civic would be in 4th gear while the Type-R is still fumbling with shifting to 3rd and having an eyefull of the civic's taillights.

First time I drove the turbo car, which was set up very much the right way, shifts were so fast that I was hitting the limitter all the time. for boost

Smashback

Good God there are a lot of useless posts here, but this guy took the words out of my mouth:

The turbo car is going to make waaaay more torque and that's why he's going to smoke the na car. Not to mention the turbo guy probably spent a lot less money getting that much power out of his 4 cylinder engine.