Mo_Spec

We’ve been fighting a head gasket issue, first here is the setup: golden eagle 83mm sleeved gsr block, arp evo10 head studs 10.5:1 je pistons and manly rods. And now here’s the issue: one pull on the dyno at 21 psi, 24 degrees timing and by 7500-8000 rpm it immediately pressurizes the coolant system, blows off hoses etc.. the first two head gaskets were an off brand 83mm gasket. So we put in a golden eagle headgasket and gsr arp studs and it held 3 dyno pulls and a few track passes, then it let go as well. i checked the head and block with a machined flat and a flashlight everything seems flat and straight.

thanks guys
any input is much appreciated

turbo-crx

To much timing up top?

Mo_Spec

what are most people running for timing on boost around 20 psi?

non-VTEC

much less than 20deg on pump gas.....find a new tuner...

jdm602

i dont think timing is the issue here. if everythings flat and straight, i see that being the problem. block should be step decked at least .003".

i think turbo setups should be step decked .005" imo.

turbociv910

detonation loves to blow gaskets and pressurize coolant systems

way to much timing.

lulz.

that compression id start around 12-13 degrees and work your way up.

jdm602

some of the time you can see detonation on the dyno graph. on another not...ive seen about the same amount of timing ran on almost double the boost with no problems at all.

Mo_Spec

we are running E85. on the stock motor we ran 15psi and 26 degrees all last season with no head gasket/detonation issues so i'm kinda lost

non-VTEC

take more timing away....that still sounds like an awful lot of ignition timing at that boost level with a 60-1 turbo even with e85.

my pump gas setup is running 14-15deg at 15psi......and even lower in the peak torque area....

what kind of power/torque is this thing making?

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

arp evo10 studs??????? is this some new style sud or are you really running evo headstuds in a honda block?

alpha

What kind of fuel are you running?

joe111599

e85...he said it a few posts up...

Mo_Spec

yeah really evo 10 head studs....they are the same thread as honda.... they are just made of a stronger material then the basic arp studs for b series, but we took them out thinking maybe that was the issue

tony1

Where did you hear that about the material of the EVO X studs? What material were you told they were made of?

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

um arp studs are arp studs and tinsle strength is tinsel strength. sounds like that is a good contributing factor. whats the overall length of the evo studs vs the b series studs?

HAVideos

The car is not on pump gas.
I'm not entirely sure why people are jumpig straightto timing being the case..... Especially while using the term "detonation"... But that's a whole other topic.
There is no preignition going on. curve is smooth and there isnt so much timing in it that it was starting to lose power before we backed off. we backed off while it was still making plenty of power per deg. The second gasket it blew on the dyno we had it at only 19 deg and 21psi and that one blew on the first pass lol. The car was on 22lbs at 23-25 degrees last season on the stock sleeve/pistons and rods motor and the head gasket never so much as flinched at those settings. You see our confusion when it was on more boost and more timing with the same fuel last season with great results and now with less timing and one lb of boost less And showing no signs of preignition yet it's throwing a fit every pass. Doesn't make me wanna lean towards timing as the cuplrit ya know :/ but hey we could be wrong.
But I guess I'd be happier with a quick change in the computer and a new head gasket instead of tearing everything apart to step the block again. We need to check the amount of the step. We called golden eagle and they said they did it as usual at .003 but maybe it does require more...

HAVideos

im pretty sure the Evo studs were slightly shorter. Mo_spec is the one who assembled it so ill let him chime in but i remember it being a notable difference but the stud still made it all the way through the nut. and actually the last head gasket that went was with the honda studs cuz we were worried about the evo stuff and took them out. so the problem occurred with both studs :/
were we misinformed? ill let morgan chime in on that too.

Topoyiyo

When they surface the head last did they use a cutter or did they freakin sit it on a sander ? I would surface the head min. like .002'' or .003" just to be 110% on the head, Blocks sink sleeves and some times its hard to catch while in the car, if needed deck block min also so you have two perfectly machined surfaces. another thing i do if i really cant find the problem is put an indicator on the piston to make sure tdc is dead on so that timing is accurate
Well good luck and keep us posted!

HAVideos

thanks guys. i think we are going to give the block another look to make sure its stepped enough. its the major difference between last years motor and this year's motor soooo. if thats the problem i'll be irate seeing as how we wont be able to make Noble IFO and we will have to pay for machining we shouldnt have had to. hoping for the best

Mo_Spec

a friend of ours had mentioned that the evo 10 studs were stronger then the b series ones and would fit in the block with no modification. so i looked it up and the evo 10 studs are made of ARP2000 material and the b series studs are 8740 material.

From arp's website:

8740 CHROME MOLY: Until the development of today’s modern alloys, chrome moly was popularly considered a high strength material. Now viewed as only moderate strength, 8740 chrome moly is seen as a good tough steel, with adequate fatigue properties for most racing applications, but only if the threads are rolled after heat-treatment, as is the standard ARP production practice. Typically, chrome moly is classified as a quench and temper steel, that can be heat-treated to deliver tensile strengths between 180,000 and 210,000 psi.

ARP2000®: An exclusive, hybrid-alloy developed to deliver superior strength and better fatigue properties. While 8740 and ARP2000 share similar characteristics – ARP2000 is capable of achieving clamp loads in the 215,000-220,000 psi range. ARP2000 is used widely in short track and drag racing as an up-grade from 8740 chrome moly in both steel and aluminum rods. Stress corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement are typically not a problem, providing care is taken during installation.

our friend was right there stronger.........and he had a set, so we tried them out........looking back i doubt these studs caused any of our issues.

also I talked to 2 different people at Golden Eagle today about the step deck they cut in the blocks, First guy said a thousandth or 2 and the second guy said 3 thousandths. so i kinda wonder which one our block is cut to .001 or .003 ...

thanks everyone for the input

jdm602

well oem blocks are stepped .002" from the factory. pretty sure ge does it at least that unless otherwise specified by the customer. i know ill be getting my new build stepped .005"

hybrdthry911

even if thats not the reason, that is very aggressive timing, i doubt you are making any more power than it would with 10 degrees of less timing.

Mo_Spec

Oops forgot to post the power someone asked earlier... 620-630 don't remember the torque.... It was 5am when we finished we were just happy the head gasket held

96 GSR-T

I dont think its the tune but who knows, I was running 25deg up top with 23psi of boost using E85... and with a .065" headgasket with a flat deck no step deck and I had no issues.

JDogg

you dont "need' a step deck, there have been plenty of big power cars with a flat deck.

if you are blowing hoses off i think you have bigger problems. The last time I saw a car blow a hose on the dyno had a cracked sleeve.