Todallybuilt

iTrader: (1)

I am building a LS/VTEC setup and it will have AC & PS. I have a garrett t3/t4 .60 AR but wanted to know what is the biggest turbo you can fit without loosing AC or PS.

If you have a turbo honda with AC & PS post the size of your turbo.

Todallybuilt

iTrader: (1)

sorry I forgot to mentioned that I have a 4dr eg

FeelTheBass

iTrader: (1)

It's not just about the size of the turbo, but also consider what manifold you use, downpipe routing, etc.

I'm using a straight t3 60 trim garrett turbo with a cast iron log manifold, compressor housing facing the passenger side, and a 5-bolt 2.5inch custom downpipe to squeeze next to my AC compressor. This is an EJ6 chassis, 1996 civic cx hatch with b18b1 swap.

I also installed a pusher fan on the AC condenser to give more room for the turbo. Here are some pics of my clearance;

EDIT: For reference, I'm shooting for 250-280whp with this setup. You should state your power goal as well.

850Fabrication

too much to consider in order to answer that question. not only that but similar spec turbos across different brands have vastly different housing sizes.

choose a turbo that suits YOUR NEEDS and what you are doing with the car and then determine what you need to do to run it.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea pick a power goal. Turbo "size" is irrelevant although I know you'll want the largest turbo possible for cool points at the next parking lot meet. Lulz

Dark_Teg

Just get a 4 inch anti-surge compressor housing and watch all the newbs say OMG that turbo is huge!!! LOL

Todallybuilt

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the answers. It's not that I want the biggest turbo to brag but since I am fully building my engine, I am afraid that I will max out my turbo. I did some researching here on HT and my turbo will max out at 450whp. I have seen similar setups doing more than 550 whp. By the way I am using a go-autoworks AC turbo kit.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

It still all depends upon the purpose. You can get 600-700whp, but it will be tough to have and horrible to drive. What are you really trying to do with this car? and we don't care about the "fully built" part. That means nothing if there's no purpose to what you're doing with the parts you have or plan to get.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

It doesn matter how "built" your engine is and it doesn't matter how much power other setups make...

How much power do YOU want? Without knowing that we can't help you.

Todallybuilt

iTrader: (1)

This car will be my weekend fun car. I will probably have it on low boost for driving probably around 300whp but would like to be able to get as much power as I can out it when I turn up the boost. I would like to see more than 450 whp but realistically it would more around 425 whp since I do not want to be maxing out the turbo. that's why I wanted to see if anyone else was running a turbo that could handle more than 500 whp with AC

Tony the Tiger

You can fit a pretty big turbo, in terms of wheel sizes. With a T04B cover, it can accomodate up to a GTX35R sized turbo if you really wanted to. ATP sells compact housings with bigger wheels just like their drop-in kits for Subarus when they would have GT30/35R turbos made to fit inside a GT28 configuration in most aspects. You can technically fit a 600+ WHP turbo.

There are major drawbacks with crunching a huge wheel into a small housing though. All that added resistance with the compressor housing being shrunk down would mean lazy spool, and it will fall short of efficiency everywhere on the compressor map. I don't have actual results to quantify it, but its significant.

Your other concern is the downpipe size. A 2.5" downpipe won't get you far in terms of optimal power and spool.

Then your other concern is to have a large enough intercooler to support 500+ WHP. This would end up blocking most of your A/C condensor and make your A/C system useless.

All these losses become significant by the time you decide to crank up the boost. Next thing you know, you will end up having a setup that never seems to spool up properly, with boost that likes to fall off at higher RPM's, and low RPM's would feel completely dead.

I would say the best power that you can pull off with those restrictions, would be around 350-380 WHP.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I would agree to most of that, but it would increase that to about 450-550whp. After that, its done. It's all about the balance of the wheel sizes that you configure... This is why the Surfer was created, and was no small accident.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Also you're going to find that without intense heat control methods you're going to kill AC compressors left and right. It's a fairly common thing with turbo FWD Hondas. You'll start to notice the AC getting warmer and warmer until the compressor takes a ****.

I'm talking about wrapping/coating the downpipe, some sort of physical heat shield for the compressor, insulating the lines to and from the compressor, and running a serious fan for the AC condenser.

Your intercooler is going to cause reduced airflow through the condenser in the first place and most AC turbo setups don't have enough room for the OEM fan which is really inadequate for the additional thermal load placed on the AC system so you'll have to run a pusher fan. Don't cheap out, get the biggest SPAL you can fit on the core.

LOWLUDE22

I made 650whp on a STC predator, spoolin quick4 ac manifold, 3" DP full size stock radiator and condenser. I live in Mississippi where it's not just hot it's f*king stupid hot and humid. Only issue I ever had was it didn't like to idle with my cams when the compressor clicked on.. Blew 43* though

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

There's a way to solve that, ironically through your software. i had the same trouble on the cold nights with the GSCs, and realized that when I changed my idle during the A/C cycle (even though i don't have it... it's the computer's way of compensating for the voltage use of an A/C compressor that I'm getting at here) it would no longer stall during the cold nights.. Make sure you also have a 40 amp fuse or relay system on the fans you're using. that will help too.

Todallybuilt

iTrader: (1)

That's a sick setup, what are the specs of your turbo used on this setup?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

if you put some heat sleeve/wrap over that upper AC line you'll see much lower AC discharge temps and your compressor will thank you

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

Run an MR2 power steering pump + Karcepts mount

I am going to be running this setup when I get to it. Should free up some room up front, keep things nice and tidy but also allow me the option of turning it on/off when I please since its electronic. Is it the cheapest option? No, but it gives you all the room in the world to do what you want with the turbo selection. Ill be running a/c as well but will require custom lines for sure.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The MR2 pump requires the accompanying voltage controller to run properly. The motor was never designed to run at a steady voltage, doing so greatly reduces pump life not to mention it basically overdrives the PS system.

It's also fairly complex to redesign the system for someone not familiar with doing so. Typically the pump has to be located inside the car since it doesn't like heat and vibration.

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

Hmm really? In all of the how to;s I have seen they never mentioned anything about the voltage controller. Most of them are K series guys. I bought the proper relays, hosing & bracket to mount it on the driver side up front under the frame rail "Karcepts mount".

I will have to look into the voltage controller stuff. I plan on running it to a switch so I can turn it on/off when wanted. I know there is an adjustment on the PS pump itself for flow control. Its just my weekend car that hasn't ran in like 4+ years so it wont see much drive time anyways lol. Worth a shot!

Tony the Tiger

I kinda mentioned that figure because that was also the number I was seem to stuck at back in '02-03... I had an HKS manifold/GT2871R/Fluidyne full size radiator / GSR A/C system (full size condenser) and still had room to fit two puller fans. The intercooler was a very small unit, I believe, 6" tall, 22" length and 2.5" thick. I did have a 3" downpipe.

From the factory, the A/C system on the Integra would be what I consider to be the best among all B-series powered Hondas. Although in comparison to say any Lexus/Toyota, the Integra A/C system was pretty crappy from the factory.

Once I went turbo, I would say the A/C system was half as good. It would only blow cold air if I baby'd the car and drove easily, like driving my parents around on a slow Sunday drive.

Eventually, once I upgraded to a larger intercooler (8" x 24" x 3"), it blocked enough of the condenser that my A/C system would vent and keep losing charge.

I guess my standards of a useful A/C system is one that I can go for a spirited drive, the engine stays cool, A/C blows cold, and none of the components impede cooling if I was at the track.

With a full size condenser in the way, my Integra ran hot after a few laps as well (coolant temps). It wasn't worth the hassle anymore so the system was removed "again" (Long story, I had it removed back when i was N/A in '00-01).

I am sure if I ventured into more exotic solutions like fully louvered hood, V-mounted intercooler/radiator/condenser, and whole bunch of cool packaging ideas, I could get it to work eventually. So by today's standards (let's say if you were to approach this), I am sure you can get it to 450+ WHP and keep the system functional with minor change of driving style

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I really wish this could be stickied about trying to keep A/C in a system that was never designed for it... Especially from a Jedi Master as yourself.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I'll look into it. I feel if we could "build" an adequate database for AC compatible turbo setups and the issues/what to expect and why and so forth I feel it would be a worthwhile addition to the FAQ.

I too still miss that integra. A lot.

Geis

Now that I think about it, I've never seen an integra (or honda for that matter) run a v style intercooler/rad setup. With that, intensive heat rapping and shielding, I would imagine 400+ 'fully functional' ac would be possible, that would be quite a setup though.

OneBadTurboCRV

Honestly, you guys have to think outside the box, but with my platform I have zero A/C issues with stock radiator, condenser, hood, stock front bumper trimmed for the 3" intercooler core out front. Was even using stock condenser fan as well for a while too... and I ain't no Jedi.