Best tubular mani-fold .... ????
12-12-2003, 03:38 PM
#76
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Re: (speedyonez)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by speedyonez »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">show me some of kooks work... and what was that guy saying about the badass drag mani's?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
He was joking about the bad *** drag mani. well then again, i hope he was.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
He was joking about the bad *** drag mani. well then again, i hope he was.
12-12-2003, 03:46 PM
#77
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Re: (Full-Race Henry)
You guys are crazy. My old drag manifold could outflow ANY full-race/lovefab/hytech manifold ever made yO! But I know use that as a paper weight. I upgraded to the OBX/MENG headers. $300 bucks, chrome, and they are unbreakable!!!
lol
lol
12-12-2003, 04:09 PM
#78
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Re: (Broken Vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Broken Vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Full-Race.... The image speaks for itself</TD></TR></TABLE>
That collector looks like a robot did it. ffgeon is a welding stud bull.
Sonny
12-12-2003, 04:19 PM
#79
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Re: (DIRep972)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If anything, Full-Race is in evolution of Kooks. Definitly not a copy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And this is my "twist" on evolution.
It DEFINATELY not a copy. My turbo placement is close to 2 inches lower(collectors longer, narrower merge angle), wastegate location is also lower, which helps to disperse the gasses more evenly w/less entry angle, which is ultimately more efficient.
Im not saying my manifolds are "better" than Full-Races, but Im saying they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. This is my first post in over a week...guess Ive been busy
If anything, Full-Race is in evolution of Kooks. Definitly not a copy.</TD></TR></TABLE>
And this is my "twist" on evolution.
It DEFINATELY not a copy. My turbo placement is close to 2 inches lower(collectors longer, narrower merge angle), wastegate location is also lower, which helps to disperse the gasses more evenly w/less entry angle, which is ultimately more efficient.
Im not saying my manifolds are "better" than Full-Races, but Im saying they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. This is my first post in over a week...guess Ive been busy
12-12-2003, 05:46 PM
#81
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Re: (BG Boost)
mani look great and so do the welds but the less welds the more better off you are thats why kooks manis make lots of power they are all mandrell bent minimum welds kind of goes back to the old jdm typer header everyone grinding off the welds in the flange for no turbulence.kooks was one of the first i ever seen with the old loop style manifolds and i could gaurentee that by next year you will see copys of their newer style manifolds all over also. ive already seen copys of mine 1 week after i posted it on the internet not going to say who but you could figure it out from the pics 
12-12-2003, 06:47 PM
#83
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Re: (itr206)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Heres a pic of mine, this is what i was saying about the runners welded i guess for added strength</TD></TR></TABLE>
Theres absolutely no reason to weld the runners.
Theres absolutely no reason to weld the runners.
12-12-2003, 07:39 PM
#86
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Re: (Jay Dirt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jay Dirt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my manifolds will be out soon.. they look like the Full-Race but i the wastegate flange is an inch higher than Geoffs, so as you can see mine are completely different.</TD></TR></TABLE>
haha u r kidding right? because a) I see FR in ur sig. and b) if u put the wastegate an inch higher you would practically have to cut out the whole front bumper support on a civic lol.
haha u r kidding right? because a) I see FR in ur sig. and b) if u put the wastegate an inch higher you would practically have to cut out the whole front bumper support on a civic lol.
12-12-2003, 07:47 PM
#87
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Re: (DIRep972)
OKAY!!! definatly fullrace, LOVEFAB!!! or KOOKS manifold....I can get you a Kooks tubular manifold for 650Shipped with a T3 Flange and a 35mm/38mm Waste gate flange attached! ask anybody...Kooks is the ****! all you gotta do is brace your turbo correctly and kooks mani's will treat you right If you don't want a kooks manifold then definatly buy a SST tubular mani from CODY http://www.lovefab.com/manifolds/sst.html !!!
If you don't want a kooks manifold then definatly buy a SST tubular mani from CODY http://www.lovefab.com/manifolds/sst.html !!!
12-12-2003, 11:25 PM
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Re: (Jay Dirt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jay Dirt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my manifolds will be out soon.. they look like the Full-Race but i the wastegate flange is an inch higher than Geoffs, so as you can see mine are completely different.</TD></TR></TABLE>
as soon as your finger heals or you rejoin the welding union
?
as soon as your finger heals or you rejoin the welding union
?
12-13-2003, 05:05 AM
#90
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Re: (Mase)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Theres absolutely no reason to weld the runners. </TD></TR></TABLE>
To be different is a primary reason. More room is another. And a cool look to add to things. Not bitching or anything Mase, just listing my reasons So far this thread has stayed relatively clean...Im almost impressed
On a side note, here is an AC SST that I made for a customer a LONG time ago(before LoveFab was "officially" a business)...still running!(and only mild steel!)
In those pictures he was waiting for a $20 modfication to the AC lines, which wouldnt be necessary because of optimum turbo placement now AC has been up and running the whole time w/no problems!
Theres absolutely no reason to weld the runners. </TD></TR></TABLE>
To be different is a primary reason. More room is another. And a cool look to add to things. Not bitching or anything Mase, just listing my reasons
So far this thread has stayed relatively clean...Im almost impressed On a side note, here is an AC SST that I made for a customer a LONG time ago(before LoveFab was "officially" a business)...still running!(and only mild steel!)
In those pictures he was waiting for a $20 modfication to the AC lines, which wouldnt be necessary because of optimum turbo placement now
AC has been up and running the whole time w/no problems!
12-13-2003, 05:11 AM
#91
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Re: (Tinker219)
Ok, i'm no manifold expert, but there's some things i know. Stainless steel expands and contracts alot with heat. Now, you are not supposed to brace a manifold by connecting the turbine flange and the head flange with a brace. The reason for this is you want the runners to be able to expand and contract with heat and if they're braced like that then they can't move. Don't you think welding the runners together is even worse for strength because they can't expand? You can call it different, but lets call it for strength...
12-13-2003, 05:21 AM
#92
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Re: (tony1)
Well, time will tell Tony. I dont weld the ENTIRE way around the runners, its only the first 1.5 elbows. This still leaves some "give". The main reason I started doing this is because I have observed that the collector area is the weakest part of the manifold. With the individual runners welded to the collector, with nothing tying to other runners, there is the posibility of alot of "twist" at that weld.
Now we move onto expansion/contraction. The way I look at it, the runners are ALL stainless. Unless Im a complete Bonehead, would they not expand/contract at the same time?
Ive thought about the individual pulses firing through each runner, and was wondering what that would do, but I decided that the thermal conductivity is not fast enough to create flex in each runner as the cylinder fires. With the runners welded together, the thermal properties would travel througout the manifold would it not?
Anyway, Ive heard horror stories of "certain" manifolds with runner number 3 just completely gone! If something cracks w/this design, the manifold will at least stay together long enough to get the customer home, and shipped back for warranty repair. Just some food for thought, Im NOT stepping on any toes! Or saying one design is "better" than another
*edit*Oh, and on the older manifolds with the head-to-turbo flange braces, so far they have held up. I stopped doing that because I had a manifold live through a heavy front end collision w/out them, and I decided that they just werent necessary.
Now we move onto expansion/contraction. The way I look at it, the runners are ALL stainless. Unless Im a complete Bonehead, would they not expand/contract at the same time?
Ive thought about the individual pulses firing through each runner, and was wondering what that would do, but I decided that the thermal conductivity is not fast enough to create flex in each runner as the cylinder fires. With the runners welded together, the thermal properties would travel througout the manifold would it not?
Anyway, Ive heard horror stories of "certain" manifolds with runner number 3 just completely gone! If something cracks w/this design, the manifold will at least stay together long enough to get the customer home, and shipped back for warranty repair. Just some food for thought, Im NOT stepping on any toes! Or saying one design is "better" than another
*edit*Oh, and on the older manifolds with the head-to-turbo flange braces, so far they have held up. I stopped doing that because I had a manifold live through a heavy front end collision w/out them, and I decided that they just werent necessary.
12-13-2003, 08:06 AM
#93
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Re: (Tinker219)
As always, tony is correct.
Tinker,
You forget some things here:
When something changes temperature, it shrinks or expands in all three dimensions
If an object is heated or cooled and it is not free to expand or contract, the thermal stresses can be large enough to damage the object (the runner), or to damage whatever the object is constrained by (this case the weld).
Furthermore, I wont go into deep details, but from my calculations SS 304 will expand about 2% at say 800C.
But hell, 2% isn't all that much right? WRONG
What does it mean it expands 2% but yet your welded runners cant move? It causes quite a bit of thermal stress. How much? Well hard to say, but lets take some simple equations and see what we can come out with:
The thermal stress is the product of the coefficient of linear expansion and the temperature change and Young's modulus for the material. We will test from room temp to 800 degrees C, everything else is a fixed constant.
(6.5 x 10^-6/F) (1472F - 70F) (28 x 10^6 lb/in2)= 255,164 lb/in^2.
That's a lot of stress, naturally the members will move the above equation is if the runners CAN NOT MOVE AT ALL, regardless, it still adds a lot of stress, Do you want that on your members? I sure as hell wouldn't when it's not necessary.
Will those welds induce product failure? Who knows, it may or may not, but I can tell you, "your doing it for looks", isnt adding any structural strength, thats for sure.
Tinker,
You forget some things here:
When something changes temperature, it shrinks or expands in all three dimensions
If an object is heated or cooled and it is not free to expand or contract, the thermal stresses can be large enough to damage the object (the runner), or to damage whatever the object is constrained by (this case the weld).
Furthermore, I wont go into deep details, but from my calculations SS 304 will expand about 2% at say 800C.
But hell, 2% isn't all that much right? WRONG
What does it mean it expands 2% but yet your welded runners cant move? It causes quite a bit of thermal stress. How much? Well hard to say, but lets take some simple equations and see what we can come out with:
The thermal stress is the product of the coefficient of linear expansion and the temperature change and Young's modulus for the material. We will test from room temp to 800 degrees C, everything else is a fixed constant.
(6.5 x 10^-6/F) (1472F - 70F) (28 x 10^6 lb/in2)= 255,164 lb/in^2.
That's a lot of stress, naturally the members will move the above equation is if the runners CAN NOT MOVE AT ALL, regardless, it still adds a lot of stress, Do you want that on your members? I sure as hell wouldn't when it's not necessary.
Will those welds induce product failure? Who knows, it may or may not, but I can tell you, "your doing it for looks", isnt adding any structural strength, thats for sure.
12-13-2003, 08:13 AM
#94
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Re: (Mase)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The thermal stress is the product of the coefficient of linear expansion and the temperature change and Young's modulus for the material. We will test from room temp to 800 degrees C, everything else is a fixed constant.
(6.5 x 10^-6/F) (1472F - 70F) (28 x 10^6 lb/in2)= 255,164 lb/in^2.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this the same Mase i know?
The thermal stress is the product of the coefficient of linear expansion and the temperature change and Young's modulus for the material. We will test from room temp to 800 degrees C, everything else is a fixed constant.
(6.5 x 10^-6/F) (1472F - 70F) (28 x 10^6 lb/in2)= 255,164 lb/in^2.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this the same Mase i know?
12-13-2003, 08:22 AM
#95
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Re: (DIRep972)
yeah yeah, blow me Just because I dont go to class, doesnt mean I dont know anything, haha, after all, I'm 3/4th's of an engineer
P.S. thats simple 6th grade math though. Shall i bust out some integration on ur candy ***
Just because I dont go to class, doesnt mean I dont know anything, haha, after all, I'm 3/4th's of an engineer P.S. thats simple 6th grade math though. Shall i bust out some integration on ur candy ***
12-13-2003, 08:25 AM
#96
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Re: (DIRep972)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Is this the same Mase i know?</TD></TR></TABLE>
shouldn't you and arturbo be on the way up here to deliver a turbo..??
( )
Is this the same Mase i know?</TD></TR></TABLE>
shouldn't you and arturbo be on the way up here to deliver a turbo..??
( )
12-13-2003, 08:43 AM
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Re: (Mase)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Just because I dont go to class, doesnt mean I dont know anything, haha, after all, I'm 3/4th's of an engineer
</TD></TR></TABLE>
well 3/4th of an engineer knows more than a 0/0th of an engineer when it comes to designing products...... if you know what i mean.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
well 3/4th of an engineer knows more than a 0/0th of an engineer when it comes to designing products...... if you know what i mean.
12-13-2003, 08:51 AM
#98
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Re: (espanol)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by espanol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
shouldn't you and arturbo be on the way up here to deliver a turbo..?? ( )</TD></TR></TABLE>
i think the turbo is coming w/ arturbo hehe.. I am going to houston to get my block as soon as his punk *** gets here.
shouldn't you and arturbo be on the way up here to deliver a turbo..??
( )</TD></TR></TABLE>i think the turbo is coming w/ arturbo hehe.. I am going to houston to get my block as soon as his punk *** gets here.
12-13-2003, 08:52 AM
#99
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Re: (Mase)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah yeah, blow me Just because I dont go to class, doesnt mean I dont know anything, haha, after all, I'm 3/4th's of an engineer
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It wasn't the math, i just have memories of u pushing porty-poties w/ golf karts lol.
Just because I dont go to class, doesnt mean I dont know anything, haha, after all, I'm 3/4th's of an engineer </TD></TR></TABLE>
It wasn't the math, i just have memories of u pushing porty-poties w/ golf karts lol.
12-13-2003, 08:58 AM
#100
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Re: (Broken Vtec)
Some food for thought, and yes being 3/4 of an engineer is better than being 0/0 of one Based on mine and other's experiences though, Im going to continue with this.
Great info Mase!
Based on mine and other's experiences though, Im going to continue with this. Great info Mase!