dyg2001

What would be the best supercharger setup for my 92 Civic Si with JDM B16A2? Budget is $10,000. Must be reliable. Street and autocross, no drag racing.

lazerus

my vote would probably be intercooled JSRC kit with all the fixins... hondata nice header/exhaust and the rest for suspension and tires.

dyg2001

Jackson Racing is superior to Vortech? Why?

lazerus

vortechs make their peak horsepower right when you need to shift, not exacty ideal for autocrossing.

liam821

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dyg2001 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jackson Racing is superior to Vortech? Why?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Jackson has boost from almost idle to redline. THe vortech only makes good power at redline.

liam

falcongsr

Out on the road today
I saw a Black Flag sticker on a Cadillac
A little voice inside my head said,
"Don't look back.
You can never look back."

dyg2001

Yeah, that was me big pimpin in my El Dorado.

dyg2001

OK, so Jackson Racing is better than Vortech for midrange power/torque. What are your suggestions for the ideal JRSC setup? So far I have a B16A2 with stock internals, AEM CAI, DC 4-1 headers, GReddy EVO cat-back exhaust, Clutchmasters stage IV clutch and lightened flywheel, ITR LSD. Like I said my budget for engine mods is 10 grand. Reliability is important.

8psiover

There are are basically two types of supercharges: positive displacement supercharges like the Roots supercharger and centrifugaql superchargers like the well-regarded Vortech and the Powerdyne. Both types of superchargers have totally different power characteristics from each other. It is important to understand the characteristics for you to choose which type best suits your needs.

ROOTS SUPERCHARGER
Let's first discuess the roots positive displacement supercharger. The roots blower is a common type of supercharger found in many industrial applications, like school buses and in Jackson Racing supercharger kits. A Roots blower has rotating. intermeshing lobes that displace a greater amount of air then the engines's displacement for every revolution of the motor. this is due to both the blowers pumping volume and stepped up rotor drive ratio (which is usually around 2-3 times crankshaft speed). This greater displacemtn si how the Roots blower achieves a positive manifold presssure, usually around 6-8 psi of manifold pressure.

The Main advantage that a Roots-type blower has over a turbocharger and a centrifugal supercharger is immediate and proportional response to the throttle as the blower will always pump close to a given constand volume of air over the engine's displacement no matter what the rpms is.

There will be slight variations in boost as the blower's volumetric efficiency improves with rpm and the engines's volumetric efficiency varies throughtout the powerband, but for the most part, the boost pressure will remain pretty constant. This makes a Roots-blown motor feel like a big displacement version of the same motor.

Because of these characteristics, a Roots supercharger is the king of driveabilty. These are perfect characteristics for a daily drive or for those who value low-end grunt. The low end grunt is welcome in the high revving VTEC b16a and b18c motors.

These power delivery characteristics make the Roots blower ideal for the driver who values a very linear response of the motor, such as an autocrosser who needs smooth predictable power from very low speeds to help throttle steer through tight cones, or a driver who wants a tractable, predictable street car with power on demand to quickly end a stoplight encounter.

EATON----
Typicaly, an Eaton roots blower, the most popular type, can give a power increase of as much as 40 percent, a very impressive power gain for a single bolt-on piece. The Eaton blower is a well-engineered, proven unit. Since it is used as an OEM part for several different manufacturers such as General Motors, the eaton has undergone extensive testing for reliability and durability. It is perhaps the most reliable supercharger onthe market.

The Eaton blower has an adiabatic efficiency of over 60%. Adiabatic efficiency is the difference between how much the discharge temperature of the supercharger is increased and the theoretical pressure gain over compresssing air to the same pressure as expressed by the ideal gas law, PV=NrT. This is a big improvement over older Roots superchargers that had efficiencies of around 50%.

JACKSON RACING--- The well-engineered Jackson Racing Eaton superchargers kits are Roots blowers. Jackson Racing's kits are a big bang for the buck producing lots of power for the money. Theya re CARB certified also. A Jackson Eaton-powered b18c5 type r integra kit makes up to 225 nice broad predicatable hop at the front wheels. The civic si kit makes 192hp and 137ft-lb of torque to the wheels. Greater gains can be expected when items like headers, cat-back exhaust systems and cold air intakes are added to the supercharger system.

Jackson Racing's kits are cleanly engineered and complete with everything you need to install on your car. The kids include a well integrated OEM-style cast intake manifold that the supercharger mounts to, with all of the brackets, pulleys and duct work needed for a clean installation.

Jackson kits are compatible with all power accessories like a/c and power steering, and they keep all of the emissions control components intact.

Fuel enrichment under boosted operation is handled by a boost-proportioned ste up regulartor that pinches off th return line in the fuel rail to increase fuel presssure in proportion to the boost. An included high-volume fuel pump is standard in most applications where additional fuel is needed. Ignition timing is retarded about 6 degress to avoid detonation. Since the roots blower has decent boost at low rpm, the only driveability issues from the retarded timing is a slight stumble at part throttle off of idle.

At light loads and partial throttle the eaton blower features an internal bypass valve, which keeps the supercharger form going into boost when there is a vacuum in the intake manifold. This reduces strain on the engine and helps fuel economy at part throttle by effectively decoupling the supercharger under light load conditions, virtually eliminating its drag. When the throttle is applied and the manifold vacuum drops, the valve closes, allowing the supercharger to make boost.

Jackson Racing also offers a water injection option. This uses the aquamist sytem that works so well for turbocharged cars. On a supercharged car, the water is a help, allowing much or all of the retard to be taken out of the timing by reducing detonation. The water helps prevent detonation in the cylinders by slightly retarding the combustion. It also helps cool the intake charger considerably on the non-intercooled Jackson system.

The water is injected right before the intake to the supercharger where it helps reduce the temperature rise caused by the supercharger's compression of the air by using water's high latent heat of evaporation. It is also possible to run more boost with a different pulley with water. SPORT COMPACT CAR magazine got over 200hp to the wheels on a jackson supercharged b16a Civic si after water injection was added and the engine was tuned to take advantage of its detonation supression and intercoooling capabilities.

Some individuals have used the jackson racing kits but shunned jackson's fueling method of using a boost dependant fuel presssure regulator, and retarding the engine's distributor, instead of opting to use a programmable stand-alone engine management system. When properly programmed, a stand-alone ecu with a jackson kit can see additional impresssive gains, as much as 15 more hp to the wheels with crisp low-speed driveability. Gains in power are made across the board.

People have had great cuess in using the Hon Data and Zdyne user programmable ECUs as well as the electromotive TEC II, although there is no reason why other stand-alone systems could be used.

Tomorrow CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHAGERS

dyg2001

Thanks for the info!

Eibach95Civic

damn, nice write up

PHiZ

Excellent write up, not pad for ~20 posts!
I need to do some research on how to plum an intercooler (aftercooler, wtf is that?) on the JRSC. I'm getting partial at looking at the water-air inline intercooler, setup...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Out on the road today
I saw a Black Flag sticker on a Cadillac
A little voice inside my head said,
"Don't look back.
You can never look back."
</TD></TR></TABLE>

is that a Henry Rollins lyric? I'm just guessing.

-PHiZ

keebler65

yeah i vote the JRSC as well. up the boost to about 10psi or so. there are a lot of ways to up the boost (using different sized pullies) and many companies carry different styles. one problem when using a different size pulley is the belt slipping at high boost. theres a nice guy by the name of john (www.lhtperformance.net) that goes by the name of CRVRX on honda-tech. he offers two products that i think would work great for your setup. one is a pulley that has 5 ribs which eliminates slipping and ups the boost at the same time. the other key product is an intercooling system that he offers. it replaces the normal JRSC manifold and has been proven quite effective. remember that the JRSC is known for high intake temps and if you up the boost, they only get hotter. the intercooler is an air to water system. theres more info on his website. anyways i hope this helps and just for the record, i dont benefit from his sales, etc. i just believe in his product especially since he's put so much R&D into this area.

good luck on your project

oh yeah dont forget to go hondata


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is that a Henry Rollins lyric? I'm just guessing.

-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>

don henley (sp?) or the eagles i think.

FormulaGSR

Endyn was making a supercharger for a while werent they? What ever happened to them?

bruthaboost

What no love for the screw type (aka whipple)? Is anyone making one for the b-series. I know hytech is working on one for the rsx.

8psiover

CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGERS
Centrifugal superchargers, like the vortec and powerdyne kits, are also capable of producing respectable amounts of power. this is due to their efficient centrifugal compressors. Centrifugal compressors are more thermally efficient then the roots blower, which is the main reason why the centrifugal supercharger makes more peak power then the roots. Efficient or not, due to its direct coupled positive displacement design, the roots supercharger is still the king of driveability and throttle response because of its ability to make low rpm boost.

A centrifugal superchager, like a turbo, must be spun to a critical speed before much boost can be produced. centrifugal superchargers are basically a compressor section of a turbocharger, driven through a step-up gearbox (VORTECH) or a belt drive (POWERDYNE), to the crank. The step-up drive is necessary because centrifugal compressors must spin very fast, much faster then the engine will turn and faster then a roots-type blower, in the order of 30,000 to 60,000 rpm.

DISADVANTAGES-
one of the disadvantages of centrifugal superchargers in that the centrifual compressor by nature works best over a rather small rpm range. To prevent overspeeding the compressor at high rpm, you must select a step-up gear ratio, that will not spin the comprssor too fast at the engine's maximum rpm. Because of this, the compressor is spinning nowhere near its optimal boost-producing rpm when the engine is at lower rpm, so it does not have much low rpm power boost.

Since the crankshaft directly drives the centrifugal compressor, care must be taken not to overdrive the compressor into surge at high engine rpm. Surge is where the air backs up in the compressor and oscillates violently back and forth in the compressor wheel. This happens when the engine's swallowing capacity is exceeded by the compressor's outpout, causing the air to back up in the intake tract. The mechanics of surge is when the pressure after the compressor exceeds the energy of the axial velocity component of the compressor wheel's output, which causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up. the airflow backs up, the pressure after the compressor drops and the airflow resumes.

In severe surge, this can become a violent oscillation that destroys the thrust bearing of the compressor and even causes mechanical failure of the wheel. to prevent surge, the compressor step-up speed in the blower's gearbox must not be too aggressive as to drive the compressor into surge.

Care must also be taken not to overdrive the compressor wheel into choke. Choke is when the inlet vane tip speed of the compressor sheel exceeds mach or the speed of sound, which causes a marked drop in flow. Because of the gearing needed in the supercharger's gearbox to avoid this during the engine's operation rpm, a centrifugal supercharger builds boost slowly in proportion to the engine rpm, usually reaching maximum boost and power at redline. So, the faster you spin the motor, the more power you get. This can make a centrifugal supercharger feel somewhat laggy and less responsive at low speeds then a roots blower.

This gradually increasing boost curve can make a centrifugal supercharger feel somewhat laggy and less responsive then a roots blower at low rpm, even though they make more peak hp. Some people feel that a centrifugal blower feels like a super VTEC kicking in. In fact, on a b16a civic si, the fat part of the vortec's boost curve hits just as the high rpm cam lobe is engaged by the vtec system, giving an impresssive kick in the back.

ADVANTAGES--
On a traction limited FWD vehicle like a honda, this sort of late and smoothly gradual power delivery can sometimes be advantageous, making the car easier to drive at the limit, especially on a road course, it can also aid drag strip launches, an important factor if you run on street tires. A vortech equipped civic si can easily run low 14 second quarter-mile times on street radial tires.

Another advantage that a centrifugal supercharger has it the ease in adding an intercooler into the system. since the supercharger is a seperate unit from the engine, it is easy to add an intercooler into the pipework plumbing the blower to the engine. With a roots blower, the supercharger assembly is usually cast into a special intake manifold, making it difficult to package the intercooler, it is hard to plumb an intercooler in to the roots blowers long triangular discharge vent in any cast.

VORTECH---
The vortech supercharger kit has an optional water-to-air intercooler. as an example of the awesome power of a centrifugal blower is capable of when intercooled, an intercooled vortech kit can make over 277-wheel hp and 175 lbs-ft of torque on a b16a at only about 8 psi of boost. with headers, a cold air intake, and a cat back exhaust, even bigger gains can be produced. the vortech v-5 supercharger used in the si kit has 73% peak efficiency over a broad range. the higher efficiency means that the discharge sir from the compressor with be cooler and the compressor will drain less power from the crankshaft.

Vortech has a civic si kit, gsr integra kit and startard civic kits. These kits are also CARB approved making them 50 state legal. The vortech kit features a shaft drive, which is nescessary to mount the blower where there is more room. fuel management, like the jackson ki, it also by a high volume fuel pump and a boost dependant fuel pressure regulator. A hugh bypass valve vents excess air into the atmosphere at partial throttle, taking much of the blower's load off of the engine when just driving normally. The vortech kit is also compatible with all of the engine's power accessories and emissions equipment.

Short of a turbo, the vortech kit is perhaps the biggest power adder you can bold on your car in one single shot.

POWERDYNE--
Powerdyne is currectly producing a centrifugal blower kit for the d16-powered honda civic. a powerdyne supercharger is very similar to the vortech except the step-up gearbox uses a belt drive instead of gears. the advantage of this is quieter operation as the gear drive in vortech superchargers has a distincive whine.

Powerdyne is claiming an increase of about 80hp to the wheels with 8psi of boost with their civic kit. this would be around 170 hp to the wheels on a civic.

COMPTECH---
Comptech is offering a Whipple positive displacement blower kits for the nSX. The whipple uses two intermeshing screws instead of the lobed impellers that a roots-type blower although it is difficult to find compressor maps for it to quantitatively say how much more efficient it would be. Whipple claims 75% efficiency, which is outstanding. This high efficiency is a great help when these types of superchargers are difficult to integrate an intercooler into. The nSX kit produces 367 hp.

Comptech also offiers a paxton centrifugal blower kit for the s2000. The paxton is a centrigual supercharger like the vortech. paxton does not make any efficiency claims for its supercharger. the s2000 kit makes an impressive 340 hp to the wheels.
Both of these kits are CARB approved, a tremendous advantage if you need hassle-free registration in states that have smog check.

In short, if you are not a racer looking to make the ultimate power and are trying to get a good tractable gain out of your street machine, then a supercharger could be your best bet. The jackson kits have the widest application range. IN a nutshall, roots positive displacement blowers have the most bottom end power, proportional throughout the powerband, giving the ultimate in driveability. Centrifugal blowers make the most peak power, the power coming on gradually.

COOKIEPUSS

I personally would take a look at the procharger kit. It is self oiled and looks like a well made kit. The negative is the charger sits so darn low, and I haven't seen anyone with one yet. They are track proven with domestics although their vehicles are mechanically different than are's in may ways.

Dee

Weind 12-71

Nine

Just make sure you get the IC kit for the JRSC cuz its gonna get really hot while ur autoxing and ur power is gonna drop. There are no cool down times like there are in dragging..

gitwidit

Good informative thread

Blue-Civic-Hybrid

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by COOKIEPUSS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I personally would take a look at the procharger kit. It is self oiled and looks like a well made kit. The negative is the charger sits so darn low, and I haven't seen anyone with one yet. They are track proven with domestics although their vehicles are mechanically different than are's in may ways. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are talking about the ATI Procharger used in Mustangs right?

R6Boy69

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> is that a Henry Rollins lyric? I'm just guessing.

-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
I can't remember who did the original ... but I know for sure that the Ataris just redid the song... its called boys of summer

keebler65

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blue-Civic-Hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You are talking about the ATI Procharger used in Mustangs right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah procharger has had the civic kit out for about a year now, although i dont know of anyone that has gotten it.

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by COOKIEPUSS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I personally would take a look at the procharger kit. It is self oiled and looks like a well made kit. The negative is the charger sits so darn low, and I haven't seen anyone with one yet. They are track proven with domestics although their vehicles are mechanically different than are's in may ways. </TD></TR></TABLE>

And exactly the same as a vortech, which doesn't make full boost till redline. Trust me, on high-revving motors, a centrifugal will feel laggier than even a fairly hefty turbo. If you're into autocross and have 10 grand, i'd do a setup with a 1.7 liter autorotor twin-screw blower, mounted vortech style off to the front and side of the motor, discharging through a PWR or spearco or PTE barrel intercooler and then to a normal intake manifold. Pulley it for 12 pounds of boost and you would have a nasty setup that would have the torque curve of a 3.2L V6.

kpt4321

8psiover rules. Nice job man.

I personally would get one of those superchargers with the exhaust wheel conversion thingie.

Oh yeah, that's a turbo. I guess that's what yo should get then.