X2BOARD

Just looking for input if anyone has used this setup.

We're installing a set of Brian Crower stage II N/A cams on a b20vtec setup and would like to have some fun boosting this combo. The cams came cheap, so just wondering if it would be worth using them versus a set of ITR or even GSR cams (both available).

input and/or flaming welcome.

X2

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Well any decent NA cam will have lots of overlap and duration. Overlap is good on na motors because it promotes cylinder scavenging and a clean intake charge. On turbo motors it means blowing boost right through the motor. You'd need to dial out most of the overlap to make any decent power

Duration means more valve open time which results in more air in the cylinders and a denser cylinder charge. This is a double edged blade because too much cylinder filling results in higher cylinder pressures that could result in an engine component failure in a boosted application. In NA motors it just means the valves are open as long as reasonably possible so the motor draws in as much air as possible on the intake stroke

Do you have the spec sheet for the cams? How much duration and overlap is there?

Natural Aspirations

If it's a stock piston B20 GSR is the biggest you will want to go.

Wantboost, I believe you need to reasses your blowing boost out the exhaust thought just a little. NA motor has no where the exhaust restriction a Turbo motor does, just something to consider.

X2BOARD

Is actually a 11:1 forged piston set

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Depending on turbocharger and manifold and HP goal and what the car is built for will give us a better idea on what camshafts to select for the setup. The more info the better

NA cams are being used all over in turbo builds and all perform well if on the right setup

DDTECH

Whats the block setup, if its a stock b20z block, then the valve reliefs aren't there and anything bigger then GSR or b16 cams will hit. Notching the VRs are a option but a shadetree way of doing things..

Most of the time, most NA cams will make more then majority of the turbo shelf profiles out there.. Since it sounds like your budget is what's steering you, i suggest maybe giving it a whirl and seeing how it works out.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

That is true. I failed to take into account the added backpressure between the turbine wheel and exhaust port. Of course it all depends on turbocharger sizing and how efficient the setup is. If backpressure is less than what's in the intake manifold then it could become an issue but most setups have fairly high backpressure levels

Good call/catch on that one. I totally forgot to take that into account lol

Natural Aspirations

Thanks, while I do not know for fact I think a lot of the performance cams have issues with smaller turbo engines has more to do with contamination than blow through. IMO this is exactly why some see issues with the GSC cams.

ievaq8

if its any help,
im running a b18 dart block, cp 11.1 comp pistons, manley rods, brian crower stage 3 NA cams with a gt35r 0.82rear housing...
it has been run in, im due to tune it very soon,
i'll keep use all upto date..
p.s. im in australia

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Now with those cams you will have overlap issues. I hope you degreed them and dialed out a fair amount of overlap. .. if not you'll notice a lack of power and a poor powercurve and sluggish turbo response

Natural Aspirations

The Brian Crower 3's were the Secret Turbo Drag cam for some time, even re boxed
and sold by NRG as their custom drag cam.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea but I remember them having an absurd amount of overlap. Someone posted the cam card awhile back iirc

blackeg

so i dunno if this helps any, but one of my friends had a b18b non vtec that had my old brian crower st2 n/a cams in it. i did the street tuning on it, felt like it was a bit slow as far as immediate throttle response compared to what i think it should have been for the turbo size. once it got up in the rpm's 5000 or so it would really pull like crazy.

ievaq8

Atm it has a 5000rpm rev limiter, absolutly no timing watsoever in it and it makes 9psi at 4000rpm.no.probs...

And im running standard cam gears....

Will see in a month or so how it goes wen i screw 15psi in it and get it tuned...

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Did you degree the cams when you installed them or did you just line up the marks on the cam gears?

I think once you set the rpm limit higher and run more boost you'll start seeing that the car is a bit sluggish at certain rpm points because of the overlap on the cams

ievaq8

They only lined up on cam gear marks...
Will see how it all goes soon enuf...

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Please keep us informed and post up the dyno graphs (hp and tq) so me and everyone else can see how the cams lift, duration, overlap, and lobe separation angle affects the powerband and if it moves power production to the higher end of the rpm range and how that much lift and overlap affects low rpm power and torque

ievaq8

well, finaly had my ek tuned...
it make 305kw on 15psi @ 8000rpm and still climbing...
the dyno graph below is 313kw on 18psi, but our pump fuel (98 octane) cant handle it...

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Can you post the timing table your tuner used? You should have easily gotten more than that out of 98RON...

ievaq8

I would if I had it on this pc, but i'll tell u that it only has 16degrees in the table from start to finish...

didn't wanna hurt it since its a first tune...

and anything more than the 15psi we left it one had the plugs too clean and running a lil warm...

and im using heat range 9 for plugs...

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

16 all the way across? Your tuner didn't finish his job - that's lazy. You easily could have made more power. NGK 9's should be fine for more power than that, as well. What injectors are you using? Can you post the injector tables?

For those of you who don't know, 98RON ~= 93 in the States.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

that's ***** timing

ievaq8

yes yes, I know its ***** timing,
my stock engine itr on our 98ron ful had 27degress total...

and its not lazy, he said to me, lets see how it goes and will re-tune after x-mas wen iv had enuf...

I havnt had a fast car in over 5years so a easy 300kw atm is very fun...

as soon as I upload my map on this pc, I will post up the injector and timing tables up...

as far as my tuner, I respect him a lot and if he tells me we running out of octane, then I will go with him, he showed me the plugs and told me that they coming out too clean on 18psi...
the afr up top in the rev range from around 7500 onwards is going to 10.6 I think...
and the plugs are still clean as...

regardless, this was to show that the bc NA stage 3 cams still work well with a boosted setup, im really happy with how its drives on and off boost...

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Glad to know it works, but simple tuning work could have gotten a LOT more out of it. I definitely wouldn't be satisfied handing someone money after they left timing tables completely flat. Re-tune after CHRISTMAS? You mean...7 months from now? Oh hell no.

Still wondering what size injectors you have, and now I'm also curious about what rotating assembly you're using.

ievaq8

I understand where ur coming from...
does this make it easier for u to understand...

I didn't pay for the tune...
I don't think the tables are exactly flat on 16degrees but I could b wrong...
and yeh, re-tune after x-mas, its my weekend, toy car wen I get time to drive it, so i'll prob only drive it maybe 20 times from now till xmas...lol
and with winter knocking on the door, i'll b lucky to drive it at all this month and next...

injectors are id 1000cc
wen u say rotating assembly u mean???