chet

so i just picked up the new tdo6 20g from a friend of mine who ordered 5 of them from japan. i'm not sure on their availability throughout the country...but i doubt any of you care.

this turbo should make around 375-390 whp on 93 octane at 21psi...and around 425whp on 24psi with a little bit of alcohol injection.

these turbos hit like a 16g and have gone as fast as 10.70's. most normal full weight 1g awd's (3100lbs) have gone mid to low 11's at 120 or so.

on the evo9 motor (they flow more than a stock 1g 4g63) jun auto was able to make 493whp at 7200rpm, 409tq at 5200rpm at 24lbs of boost.

i still need to find an exhaust housing (most likely going with a bullseye/internal 38mm gate) and the rest of the setup will be very basic.

stock 4g63 with 125k miles
2.5inch downpipe
3.0inch exhaust
660cc injectors
supra fuel pump
chipped ecu
extreme psi fmic setup so i can retain AC (450-500whp capable)
some type of safc
mr freeze alcohol injection setup
twin disk
4bolt rear

here are a few pics.



\

going into this car...

oscarmayer

so your cheezing out on a dsm and installing a used supra fuel pump, but hten your putitng on new other parts? yea makes perfect sence to me.

get a walbro 255lbs puimp and be done with it or if your goign for 350+ a larger pump that is more capable of supporting those hp levels w/o issues.

also incase you did not know, this is a HONDA site.............

Boner_Ben

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oscarmayer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so your cheezing out on a dsm and installing a used supra fuel pump, but hten your putitng on new other parts? yea makes perfect sence to me.

get a walbro 255lbs puimp and be done with it or if your goign for 350+ a larger pump that is more capable of supporting those hp levels w/o issues.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
A supra twin turbo fuel pump will outflow a walboro 255, is much more reliable, and quieter. You can buy one NEW from your local toyota dealership for around 200 dollars.

awdgsx96

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boner_Ben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A supra twin turbo fuel pump will outflow a walboro 255, is much more reliable, and quieter. You can buy one NEW from your local toyota dealership for around 200 dollars. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I was just going to say that.

Joseph Davis

A single Walbro 255 exceeds the ability of stock Honduh fuel lines, and from what I recall of all of my friend Dave's 1G/2G DSM swill you guys fuel lines aren't much different. Two Walbro 255's can be slung on a stock fuel pump hanger, at which point they are still cheaper and way outflow the Supra pump. I dunno the Supra pump's flow rating, but I feel comfortable making that assertion... that's a LOT of fuel. I've also noticed Walbros quiet down a lot when you feed then with 10-12 gauge wire... smooth fuel pump noise instead of the ratchety loud clunking most people get. Not to be an argumentative asshat, I'm really curious to see a Supra pump's flow vs pressure chart, I just want to provide the other side of the story here...

PS, to the OP... expletive the AFC and just run a chipped ECU. Buy a wideband and Moates.net Ostrich, then hop on the dsm-ecu @ yahoogroups,com site and lurk for a bit.

Alternately, if you won't ditch the AFC, there are some interesting freq divider circuits that can be built for $5 and combined with an AFC to run Hitachi/GM 3"-3.5" MAF. I can link you to my thread on HMT or electro-tech-online about it if you are interested. You end up with a functional MAF-T type setup that you don't have to crack the black box on + do stupid crude adjustments. It's not ideal since ignition tables end up as fucked as speed density cars running large AFC deflection, but you knock-sensor equipped boys seem to get away with it. A good shot of PK or laying into the vehicle too hard for too long should throw you into a knock-feedback loop + overly retard timing + melt everything down... 4G63 are stout as hell and deal with it, but keep your eye on it.

As far as the water/diluent injection... this Mr Freeze setup keeps your water/diluent pressure proportional to MAF output, yes? If not I advise you to round file it and run one of the snowperformance.net units. Keeping water:fuel in a precise ratio allows you to inject a consistently large amount and sidestep areas where water smothers spark due to inconsistent delivery typical of crude on/off sprayer nozzle crapola. Please note I say water instead of alcohol, as it has four times the cooling ability of alcohol... and is a hell of a lot cheaper. If you want to stick with alky (some people are pigheaded) but like the idea of cheaper, try some denatured alky.

Good luck with your car. I think you DSM guys run tiny *** turbos that strangle the hotside, overheat the intake charge, your transmissions are overtly homosexual, and wiring/sensor network is both poorly laid out and consists of poor quality parts. However, the 4G63 itself is a gem... I've seen them take ridiculous abuse and not flinch. Stock 160K bottom ends with a fresh head/cams bolted on, .60 T04E compressor, 35+ psi and 8000K rpms, bulletproof.

CivicDXRaceCar

Joseph, would it be a problem to post or pm the link to HMT I want to take a look.

lol Nice post btw


EDIT: could you just use a modulus counter with some extra gates?


Modified by CivicDXRaceCar at 12:09 PM 7/1/2006

beak

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this turbo should make around 375-390 whp on 93 octane at 21psi...and around 425whp on 24psi with a little bit of alcohol injection.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sad how DSM's need 21psi to make 375whp.

Turbocivic94

That's a moped turbo lol

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

You think a 20G is the baddest street turbo on the planet? lmao! Look at the size of the compressor inlet. My wastegate is bigger than that.

rkeith

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sad how DSM's need 21psi to make 375whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Their compression ratio is also 7.8:1.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

how cute, my turbo had a baby

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by moops vs moors &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not to be a dick but that's not a real 20g. SSAC sells those same units. But the CHRA is throwing me off, it looks like it might be real MHI stuff but the compressor housing is definitely not Mitsu. Lets see what the turbine housing looks like. the real MHI 20g's will have TDO6 on the compressor housing as part of the casting, not some metal tag.

I've been wanting to do a B18b 20g topmount project for awhile, these turbos are no slouch, I think they are OEM on the mitsu Fuso which is a I6 diesel truck.

either way good luck, but lets see some turbine housing pics!</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats what i thought when i saw it... ssac, because of the tag

mchuang

Here ya go so you can see how the supra pump owns the Walbro

http://www.roadraceengineering...s.htm

mchuang

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sad how DSM's need 21psi to make 375whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is just like saying sad hondas need sleeves to make more than 700hp. If you know the nature of the motor and turbo combination than you will know why it boost so much and makes so little. Just like hondas are open deck and aluminum which is the nature of the motor so sleeving is needed when producing vast amounts of power.

rkeith

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by moops vs moors &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not to be a dick but that's not a real 20g. SSAC sells those same units. </TD></TR></TABLE>

True story.

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sad how DSM's need 21psi to make 375whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A lot has to do with their turbo selection. AWD means low RPM and midrange power is one of the main concerns, so they always choose smaller turbines and match the turbos well. Smaller turbines = less power per PSI. You need to look at the big picture and really understand what goes inside a turbo engine.

MidShipCivic

baddest street turbo is called the gt35r

Tony the Tiger

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mchuang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here ya go so you can see how the supra pump owns the Walbro

http://www.roadraceengineering...s.htm</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's another graph which shows the Supra pump outflowing the Walbro, BUT only at medium pressures. There is a reason why Walbro has the LP and HP models.

oscarmayer

^ that's what i was refering to the HP model, will sustain a much higher rate of flow at higher pressures. and it's less expensive and will drop right in place of his stocker unlike the supra that I beleive will require modifications to make it fit.

MidShipCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mchuang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is just like saying sad hondas need sleeves to make more than 700hp. If you know the nature of the motor and turbo combination than you will know why it boost so much and makes so little. Just like hondas are open deck and aluminum which is the nature of the motor so sleeving is needed when producing vast amounts of power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Top fuel dragsters run iron sleeves in an aluminum block also gonna bag on them too?

Shut it .

TheThiefTheKnife'NTheGun

I made 396 on 18 lbs. with an agp 50 trim.. So you dont need 21 lbs. I was running 8.5:1 comp..

Turbocivic94

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mchuang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That is just like saying sad hondas need sleeves to make more than 700hp. If you know the nature of the motor and turbo combination than you will know why it boost so much and makes so little. Just like hondas are open deck and aluminum which is the nature of the motor so sleeving is needed when producing vast amounts of power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hondas dont need sleeves to make 700hp. Jeff Evans is making well over 700hp on stock sleeves.

When was the last u heard honda block cracking at 700hp. I've seen few dsm blocks crack around that power.

MidShipCivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbocivic94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hondas dont need sleeves to make 700hp. Jeff Evans is making well over 700hp on stock sleeves.

When was the last u heard honda block cracking at 700hp. I've seen few dsm blocks crack around that power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes he did make 700hp but a 4g63 can also without cracking.

It's like Jeff says its all about the tune, but these DSM guys like AFC and carbon tinted bumpers from the hella smoke that comes out the muff, I say expletive that ****.

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Joseph Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Alternately, if you won't ditch the AFC, there are some interesting freq divider circuits that can be built for $5 and combined with an AFC to run Hitachi/GM 3"-3.5" MAF. I can link you to my thread on HMT or electro-tech-online about it if you are interested. You end up with a functional MAF-T type setup that you don't have to crack the black box on + do stupid crude adjustments. It's not ideal since ignition tables end up as fucked as speed density cars running large AFC deflection, but you knock-sensor equipped boys seem to get away with it. A good shot of PK or laying into the vehicle too hard for too long should throw you into a knock-feedback loop + overly retard timing + melt everything down... 4G63 are stout as hell and deal with it, but keep your eye on it.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
You should have seen my buddy's talon he bought. Had a built 1g block with a galant vr4 crank, crower cams, t3 60-1 turbo, custom intake mani, etc.....but was running a ******* afc with 1000cc injectors and a MAF-T. After two weeks of owning the car the damn crank snapped in half. After he went through and rebuilt the block and everything we hooked up the pocket logger which showed us 43 counts of knock during one pull . The previous owner who apprantely "tunes" dsms told him it was fine because the knock sensor feedback would take care of all that knock

3RX

this is chet, posting as 3rx (who happens to be my dad).

first, i'm glad so many of you responded. as mentioned, the supra fuel pump will definitely flow enough fuel for the power goal i have in mind...especially with a little alcohol on top.

second, its definitely an MHI turbo and it looks slightly different because it is a newer design.

third, comparing a 4g63 to any honda motor is absolutely pointless. as mentioned, 4g63's have a different head design and flow differently compared to most honda engines. 4g63's are designed to produce more torque throughout the midrange and with awd, this is a great characteristic. obviously, for top end power at the track honda motors will excel because of their more linear powerband.

i'm not looking to build a car that is solely designed forthe track. in fact, this car will be daily driven, have ice cold air conditioning, full leather interior and a nice sound system and still run mid 11's at around 120mph. it won't be the fastest car on the street...but from a stop i doubt i'll encounter any honda that will even stay within 3-4 car lengths.

and...i could have easily purchased a gt35r, i could have purchased a bb 50 trim, i could have basically purchased whatever turbo i felt would work best to produce a reliable daily driven setup that will still be somewhat fun to drive. at 400whp the transmission will hold together and it will behave very much like a stock vehicle around town. many of you choose a big turbo and then run less boost in order to have a "safe" setup on the street. i like running the smallest turbo possible that wil l produce the horsepower goal i have in mind. the difference is not top end power, but power under the curve.