Back from the Dyno and happy again!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: San Gabriel, CA, USA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (greyzone)
GReddy is coming out with a new FMU. Its called E-Mange. Its a piggy-back system designed to work with your factory ECU. It also has a built in VTEC controller. It also has an option computer harness and software that is PC windows based. It also offers real time monitoring! So like if you have a laptop in your car you can see/adjust anything thats going on instantly(haha just like FnF). Im not sure when the exact release date is for the system, but Ive seen on on http://www.groupbuycenter.com for a little over $300. With a VTEC controller built in, Im probably gonna get this instead of an Apex-i VAFC, since they're about the same price, and the E-Manage system has option PC software for easier custom tuning. The PC harness/software is rumored to be release around December along with pricing, so keep an eye out on this, looks like this is gonna be hot!
Thread Starter
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From: Turboville,, Haulingass, US
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (GReddySetGO)
GReddy is coming out with a new FMU. Its called E-Mange. Its a piggy-back system designed to work with your factory ECU. It also has a built in VTEC controller. It also has an option computer harness and software that is PC windows based. It also offers real time monitoring! So like if you have a laptop in your car you can see/adjust anything thats going on instantly(haha just like FnF). Im not sure when the exact release date is for the system, but Ive seen on on http://www.groupbuycenter.com for a little over $300. With a VTEC controller built in, Im probably gonna get this instead of an Apex-i VAFC, since they're about the same price, and the E-Manage system has option PC software for easier custom tuning. The PC harness/software is rumored to be release around December along with pricing, so keep an eye out on this, looks like this is gonna be hot!
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From: SpeedFactory, WA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (greyzone)
This is all very interesting. Now I see why you only had to back out -7% fuel. The greddy kit w/the vortech FPR and a walbro 255lph pump seems to run super rich. My bro's car with that setup runs super rich- it blows tons of black smoke under boost.
If you remove the missing link, the blue box will add fuel up to 6 psi- but from there on up it will keep giving you that 6 psi worth of extra fuel over the stock fuel maps via injector pulsewidth. That coupled with the vortech 10:1 FPR should make you super rich at all times, but especially from 0-6 psi when the systems are doubling up on the fuel. Then, as the boost goes beyond 6 psi, it should gradually get leaner. I think you will have to pull a lot more fuel with the V-AFC- so much so that you'd probably do better by going to a smaller (8:1 or less?) disk in the FPR. This will also get your fuel pressure down to a safer level which is the whole idea anyway, right? It sounds like a lot of tuning will be needed, and still end up compromising at some point in the rpm band.
It's wierd that there's only 6 psi worth of fuel mapping in the blue box, because on the wideband at 5.5 psi and at 7.5 psi my a/f ratio remained at about 12.5:1. If it only had mapping up to 6 psi, then how come my a/f wasn't leaner at 7.5 psi than at 5.5 psi? That's really got me wondering.
Hey, I just got an idea. What if there was some way that you could use a check valve to prevent the vortech from reading any boost until 6 psi?? That way the blue box could control the fuel perfectly up to 6 psi, and then from there the vortech would start adding fuel pressure to supplement the blue box's 6 psi worth of fuel? I think that would work great!! And you would probably only need like a 2:1 disk in the vortech. Nice low fuel pressure! What do you think of this?
If you remove the missing link, the blue box will add fuel up to 6 psi- but from there on up it will keep giving you that 6 psi worth of extra fuel over the stock fuel maps via injector pulsewidth. That coupled with the vortech 10:1 FPR should make you super rich at all times, but especially from 0-6 psi when the systems are doubling up on the fuel. Then, as the boost goes beyond 6 psi, it should gradually get leaner. I think you will have to pull a lot more fuel with the V-AFC- so much so that you'd probably do better by going to a smaller (8:1 or less?) disk in the FPR. This will also get your fuel pressure down to a safer level which is the whole idea anyway, right? It sounds like a lot of tuning will be needed, and still end up compromising at some point in the rpm band.
It's wierd that there's only 6 psi worth of fuel mapping in the blue box, because on the wideband at 5.5 psi and at 7.5 psi my a/f ratio remained at about 12.5:1. If it only had mapping up to 6 psi, then how come my a/f wasn't leaner at 7.5 psi than at 5.5 psi? That's really got me wondering.
Hey, I just got an idea. What if there was some way that you could use a check valve to prevent the vortech from reading any boost until 6 psi?? That way the blue box could control the fuel perfectly up to 6 psi, and then from there the vortech would start adding fuel pressure to supplement the blue box's 6 psi worth of fuel? I think that would work great!! And you would probably only need like a 2:1 disk in the vortech. Nice low fuel pressure! What do you think of this?
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From: Naples, Fl, USA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (greyzone)
so to get it richer the VAFC is the final option, in effect, I can probably take it up to about 15% enrichment
Thread Starter
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From: Turboville,, Haulingass, US
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (VTC_CiViC)
You'll get the CEL. You can't reall use the + side of the V-AFC with Honda's because of the MAP limiting factor. I tried before I went with the injectors, had it at like +6 or 7 and I got away with it, but +9 and kept getting CEL's because the AFC would tell the ECU is was seeing more pressure than was allowable.
I do like the idea of trying a 8:1 for the Vortech to see if I could slightly decrease fuel pressure and increase the enrichment values to maintain the same a/f ratios. Hmm.
so much so that you'd probably do better by going to a smaller (8:1 or less?) disk in the FPR. This will also get your fuel pressure down to a safer level which is the whole idea anyway, right?
It's wierd that there's only 6 psi worth of fuel mapping in the blue box, because on the wideband at 5.5 psi and at 7.5 psi my a/f ratio remained at about 12.5:1. If it only had mapping up to 6 psi, then how come my a/f wasn't leaner at 7.5 psi than at 5.5 psi? That's really got me wondering.
(would need to know the setup to address this)
Hey, I just got an idea. What if there was some way that you could use a check valve to prevent the vortech from reading any boost until 6 psi?? That way the blue box could control the fuel perfectly up to 6 psi, and then from there the vortech would start adding fuel pressure to supplement the blue box's 6 psi worth of fuel? I think that would work great!! And you would probably only need like a 2:1 disk in the vortech. Nice low fuel pressure! What do you think of this?
It's wierd that there's only 6 psi worth of fuel mapping in the blue box, because on the wideband at 5.5 psi and at 7.5 psi my a/f ratio remained at about 12.5:1. If it only had mapping up to 6 psi, then how come my a/f wasn't leaner at 7.5 psi than at 5.5 psi? That's really got me wondering.
(would need to know the setup to address this)
Hey, I just got an idea. What if there was some way that you could use a check valve to prevent the vortech from reading any boost until 6 psi?? That way the blue box could control the fuel perfectly up to 6 psi, and then from there the vortech would start adding fuel pressure to supplement the blue box's 6 psi worth of fuel? I think that would work great!! And you would probably only need like a 2:1 disk in the vortech. Nice low fuel pressure! What do you think of this?
[Modified by greyzone, 12:02 AM 11/17/2001]
[Modified by greyzone, 7:20 AM 12/10/2001]
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From: SpeedFactory, WA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (greyzone)
Dont think this last idea would work, since even at 6 lbs there would need to be higher fuel pressure than just stock. Even at 6 psi, currently the Holley intank is at 80 psi. Also, a check vavle on the Vortech would not work to get it to "not see" the first 6lbs of boost either—however, you can effect how it sees all boost by putting a bleeder valve on the vacuum line (this can also eliminate the need for changing diaphrams if you can get the desired results-10:1 can be reduced to almost 8.5:1 through vacuum bleed alone)
Then, from that point on up, you would only need a MILD increase in fuel pressure to provide the needed extra fuel. The blue box will keep the injector pulsewidth running on the 6 psi map even if the boost goes higher than 6 psi. That being the case, since the injectors are being held open longer than normal, for every extra psi of fuel pressure you add, you would be getting more fuel in the cylinder than if you raised the fuel pressure by the same amount without the blue box keeping the injectors open longer than normal. Do you get what I'm saying?
Thread Starter
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From: Turboville,, Haulingass, US
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (JFK78)
Dam it! Now you're making me think!
I just typed out my thoughts and somehow they got erased. ****!
Anyway, I'll get back to ya...gotta run right now.
Main thing i see is the cross over point, from 6psi to 6.1 psi and how that handoff could be done smoothly (assuming, of course, that there would even be a way to keep the first 6psi "invisible" to the Vortech). Also, Im not sure excess boost would stay "stuck" with the same fuel map fron the 6psi level...
However, I do like the way you're thinking. Minds that challenge what is help to create into reality that which curretly is not, and that is something we need for the turbo applications of tomorrow.
One thing that has been on my mind is, is there a way to make the two units (blue box and VAFC) work together, and, that said, does it then matter (yes, Im sure it does) the sequence in which they are wired into the ECU as to which has priority over which functions...I would assume the blue box would/should need to be wired into sequence first...this would bring up some of the same "Handoff" issues, going from one unit controlling FM to another...of course, the simpliest thing is to have ONE unit do both, but I like pushing the envelope with what Ive got until then.
Ahhh. Gotta love it!
I really want to thank everyone for sharing in my joy, you've helped make this thread a really cool celebration experience.
David
[Modified by greyzone, 3:19 AM 11/17/2001]
I just typed out my thoughts and somehow they got erased. ****!
Anyway, I'll get back to ya...gotta run right now.
Main thing i see is the cross over point, from 6psi to 6.1 psi and how that handoff could be done smoothly (assuming, of course, that there would even be a way to keep the first 6psi "invisible" to the Vortech). Also, Im not sure excess boost would stay "stuck" with the same fuel map fron the 6psi level...
However, I do like the way you're thinking. Minds that challenge what is help to create into reality that which curretly is not, and that is something we need for the turbo applications of tomorrow.
One thing that has been on my mind is, is there a way to make the two units (blue box and VAFC) work together, and, that said, does it then matter (yes, Im sure it does) the sequence in which they are wired into the ECU as to which has priority over which functions...I would assume the blue box would/should need to be wired into sequence first...this would bring up some of the same "Handoff" issues, going from one unit controlling FM to another...of course, the simpliest thing is to have ONE unit do both, but I like pushing the envelope with what Ive got until then.
Ahhh. Gotta love it!
I really want to thank everyone for sharing in my joy, you've helped make this thread a really cool celebration experience.
David
[Modified by greyzone, 3:19 AM 11/17/2001]
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From: SpeedFactory, WA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (greyzone)
Main thing i see is the cross over point, from 6psi to 6.1 psi and how that handoff could be done smoothly (assuming, of course, that there would even be a way to keep the first 6psi "invisible" to the Vortech). Also, Im not sure excess boost would stay "stuck" with the same fuel map fron the 6psi level...
One thing that has been on my mind is, is there a way to make the two units (blue box and VAFC) work together, and, that said, does it then matter (yes, Im sure it does) the sequence in which they are wired into the ECU as to which has priority over which functions...I would assume the blue box would/should need to be wired into sequence first...this would bring up some of the same "Handoff" issues, going from one unit controlling FM to another...of course, the simpliest thing is to have ONE unit do both, but I like pushing the envelope with what Ive got until then.
One thing that has been on my mind is, is there a way to make the two units (blue box and VAFC) work together, and, that said, does it then matter (yes, Im sure it does) the sequence in which they are wired into the ECU as to which has priority over which functions...I would assume the blue box would/should need to be wired into sequence first...this would bring up some of the same "Handoff" issues, going from one unit controlling FM to another...of course, the simpliest thing is to have ONE unit do both, but I like pushing the envelope with what Ive got until then.
And the fuel map does stay at max even if the boost goes higher. What happens is you will just gradually lean out as the boost goes higher(which is why I thought bringing the vortech in at that point would help). I have heard of a guy blowing his motor from leaning out by running 12 psi with only the blue box. It's just really wierd to me that greddy told you that it only had fuel maps up to 6 psi. I am running the blue box and a walbro 255 pump, although the pump isn't reallly needed because my fuel pressure is set at 40-48 psi with a b&m commandflo fpr. My a/f ratio is perfect at 5.5 psi up to 8 psi. So it seems to me that the blue box actually has fuel mapping up to 8 or 9 psi. Greddy told me on the phone that it was good up to 8-9 psi.
I'm beginning to wonder if the blue box actually has a set fuel map of XXX amount of fuel (added injector pulsewidth) per psi it reads. And that the reason why they say it's good only to 8 or 9 psi is because at that point the stock injectors just can't flow enough fuel to support any more boost/horsepower. Hmmmm. I wonder.
As far as wiring them up, yeah that would take some in depth thought. I'm not quite sure how it would work since the V-AFC alters the MAP sensor voltage output to the ecu to control fuel, and the blue box takes that reading and doesn't allow the ecu to see voltages any higher than atmospheric pressure. I think if the V-AFC was wired in before the blue box, it could condition the signal to decrease fuel by lowering the voltage, but it would lose the ability to add fuel since the blue box wouldn't allow the ecu to see a higher voltage. With this setup though, you wouldn't need to add fuel, only decrease fuel. I still think it could work. Maybe I'll try it someday- or maybe not. Either way I guess this is all just kind of a fun exercise in trying to work with what you've got- until you can do it the right way with the E-Manage or a full stand-alone setup and big injectors.
By the way, I really enjoy this board and being able to get my ideas out there to see what others think of them, and recieve input that actually has some value to it. This is the only board I've ever found where most of the people on it actually have a lot of useful knowledge and experience.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,343
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From: Hawaii
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (JFK78)
I wanted to keep this up at the top, its getting me very intrested on your findings.
i have the greddy turbo kit w/ blue box now, and plan on running 8 - 10 psi sooner or later.
but want to do this the cheap and effective way.
well not really cheap, but more COST Effecitve way..
Whats all the deals w/ intank VS Inline pumps? i dont understand i'm sorry please explain. also will i need injectors? or will the stock ones hold up??
i dont understand alot of things here dealing w/ fuel pressure.
10:1 @ so much psi = some other numbre...
please explain. thanks!
keep us posted!!
[Modified by 2000EX, 11:45 PM 12/9/2001]
i have the greddy turbo kit w/ blue box now, and plan on running 8 - 10 psi sooner or later.
but want to do this the cheap and effective way.
well not really cheap, but more COST Effecitve way..
Whats all the deals w/ intank VS Inline pumps? i dont understand i'm sorry please explain. also will i need injectors? or will the stock ones hold up??
i dont understand alot of things here dealing w/ fuel pressure.
10:1 @ so much psi = some other numbre...
please explain. thanks!
keep us posted!!
[Modified by 2000EX, 11:45 PM 12/9/2001]
Thread Starter
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Posts: 384
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From: Turboville,, Haulingass, US
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (2000EX)
YOu can safely do 10psi but certain things MUST be dealt with carefully. You can keep your stock injectors at that level also AND use an intank pump. Intank pumps however are limited to about 90psi. If your needs are higher than that you'll need an inline pump.
However, yoiu can do 10psi with stock injuectors and stay at or under 90 psi and still have good fuel delivery to your engine. You could use a 10:1 FRP (boost dependant) or probably even a 8:1 with a VAFC and still be on the rich side.
The maximum to expect out of this setup is right around 200whp, but that is one hell of a difference from 160whp with these additional mods. I've posted my entire setup for you so you can see what I've done. IMO, and yes, its just that, everything here was needed to safely and reliably boost at 10psi.
If you have any specific questions about this setup or related matters let me know, Ill try to answer them the best i can.
–96 EX Coupe 5spd
–1.6L SOHC VTEC D16Y8
–GReddy Turbo w/Blue Box
–GReddy Type S BOV
–GReddy T-31 Intercooler
–GReddy Boost Controller, Profec-B
–GReddy EVO Exhaust
–Gutted Oversize CAT
–Missing Link
–AutoMeter Phantom Boost Gauge
–AutoMeter Phantom Fuel Pres. Gauge
–HKS Turbo Timer
–Holly 255lph in-tank Fuel Pump
–Vortech 10:1 FMU
–A’PEXi V-AFC
–MSD SCI Ignition
–MSD Blaster 3 Coil
–MSD Pro Cap
–MSD Plug Wires
–NuForms Block Guard
–2 Mil Head Gasket (GReddy, of course)
–ARP Head Studs
–NGK BCPR7ES-11 gap @ .32
However, yoiu can do 10psi with stock injuectors and stay at or under 90 psi and still have good fuel delivery to your engine. You could use a 10:1 FRP (boost dependant) or probably even a 8:1 with a VAFC and still be on the rich side.
The maximum to expect out of this setup is right around 200whp, but that is one hell of a difference from 160whp with these additional mods. I've posted my entire setup for you so you can see what I've done. IMO, and yes, its just that, everything here was needed to safely and reliably boost at 10psi.
If you have any specific questions about this setup or related matters let me know, Ill try to answer them the best i can.
–96 EX Coupe 5spd
–1.6L SOHC VTEC D16Y8
–GReddy Turbo w/Blue Box
–GReddy Type S BOV
–GReddy T-31 Intercooler
–GReddy Boost Controller, Profec-B
–GReddy EVO Exhaust
–Gutted Oversize CAT
–Missing Link
–AutoMeter Phantom Boost Gauge
–AutoMeter Phantom Fuel Pres. Gauge
–HKS Turbo Timer
–Holly 255lph in-tank Fuel Pump
–Vortech 10:1 FMU
–A’PEXi V-AFC
–MSD SCI Ignition
–MSD Blaster 3 Coil
–MSD Pro Cap
–MSD Plug Wires
–NuForms Block Guard
–2 Mil Head Gasket (GReddy, of course)
–ARP Head Studs
–NGK BCPR7ES-11 gap @ .32
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,749
Likes: 26
From: Portland, OR
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (VTC_CiViC)
it also depends on what altitude you are at. I have my afc at +40% here in colorado without problems...but its 5400 feet up. 
If i went to sea level it would CEL.
liam
If i went to sea level it would CEL.liam
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,343
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From: Hawaii
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (greyzone)
–00 EX Coupe 5spd - Got It
–1.6L SOHC VTEC D16Y8 - Got It
–GReddy Turbo w/Blue Box - Got It
–HKS SSQ BOV - Got It
–GReddy T-31 Intercooler - Got It
–GReddy Boost Controller, Profec-B - NEED IT
–GReddy EVO Exhaust - Got It
–Gutted Oversize CAT - Gonna Get A Straight Pipe, w/ o2 sim
–Missing Link - <- Do i need this if i am running the blue box??
–AutoMeter Ultra Lite Boost Gauge - Got It
-AutoMeter Ultra Lite Oil Press Guage - Got It
–AutoMeter Phantom Fuel Pres. Gauge - I guess i need one.
–Blitz Turbo Timer - Got It
–Holly 255lph in-tank Fuel Pump <- gonna get one in jan.
–Vortech 10:1 FMU <- looking for one
–A’PEXi V-AFC <- looking for one
–MSD SCI Ignition -----
–MSD Blaster 3 Coil ------------ Was looking at MSD Digital 6, do i still need a coil?
–MSD Pro Cap ------------------ Do i need a cap?
–MSD Plug Wires-------------- Wires? honda makes really good wires, are aftermarkes really needed?
–NuForms Block Guard - Did u need to machine the block? or does this drop right in?
–2 Mil Head Gasket (GReddy, of course) <- is the really needed??
–ARP Head Studs <- same as above
–NGK BCPR7ES-11 gap @ .32 - Got It, gotta check gap thou
Can i run 8lbs, w/o any of the items here that i dont have?? i mean do i have enough fuel to run more then 5.5 lbs? i am looking at the safe route b4 i go blowing up anything.
thanks!
[Modified by 2000EX, 12:29 AM 12/10/2001]
[Modified by 2000EX, 12:33 AM 12/10/2001]
–1.6L SOHC VTEC D16Y8 - Got It
–GReddy Turbo w/Blue Box - Got It
–HKS SSQ BOV - Got It
–GReddy T-31 Intercooler - Got It
–GReddy Boost Controller, Profec-B - NEED IT
–GReddy EVO Exhaust - Got It
–Gutted Oversize CAT - Gonna Get A Straight Pipe, w/ o2 sim
–Missing Link - <- Do i need this if i am running the blue box??
–AutoMeter Ultra Lite Boost Gauge - Got It
-AutoMeter Ultra Lite Oil Press Guage - Got It
–AutoMeter Phantom Fuel Pres. Gauge - I guess i need one.
–Blitz Turbo Timer - Got It
–Holly 255lph in-tank Fuel Pump <- gonna get one in jan.
–Vortech 10:1 FMU <- looking for one
–A’PEXi V-AFC <- looking for one
–MSD SCI Ignition -----
–MSD Blaster 3 Coil ------------ Was looking at MSD Digital 6, do i still need a coil?
–MSD Pro Cap ------------------ Do i need a cap?
–MSD Plug Wires-------------- Wires? honda makes really good wires, are aftermarkes really needed?
–NuForms Block Guard - Did u need to machine the block? or does this drop right in?
–2 Mil Head Gasket (GReddy, of course) <- is the really needed??
–ARP Head Studs <- same as above
–NGK BCPR7ES-11 gap @ .32 - Got It, gotta check gap thou
Can i run 8lbs, w/o any of the items here that i dont have?? i mean do i have enough fuel to run more then 5.5 lbs? i am looking at the safe route b4 i go blowing up anything.
thanks!
[Modified by 2000EX, 12:29 AM 12/10/2001]
[Modified by 2000EX, 12:33 AM 12/10/2001]
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 1
From: SpeedFactory, WA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (2000EX)
If you are running the blue box, do not get a missing link as the blue box relys on the voltage from the MAP to add the correct amount of fuel- unless of course you want to go with the vortech fmu and 255lph pump setup and ditch the blue box.
I am using the blue box with fuel pressure at 42 psi and the a/f ratio was perfect (12.5:1) at 7.5 psi on the dyno- but I was pinging at that boost level, even with 5 degrees retarded ignition timing and 99 octane fuel. I couldn't figure it out, so I just went back to 5.5 psi and left it there for a month. And now I'm tired of 5.5 psi.
Well, the other day I turned my fuel pressure up to 62 psi and 2 degrees retarded ignition timing, and- Amazing!! I am able to run 8 psi on 92 octane with no pinging!! It seems that I have to run really rich in order to not have detonation problems above 6 psi. Its like it needs excess fuel in the cylinders to cool it down in there. It might be that my little eclipse intercooler just isn't doing the job above 6 psi. But I don't really see that being the case since eclipses run 10-18 psi with this intercooler with no problems.
[Modified by JFK78, 6:49 AM 12/10/2001]
I am using the blue box with fuel pressure at 42 psi and the a/f ratio was perfect (12.5:1) at 7.5 psi on the dyno- but I was pinging at that boost level, even with 5 degrees retarded ignition timing and 99 octane fuel. I couldn't figure it out, so I just went back to 5.5 psi and left it there for a month. And now I'm tired of 5.5 psi.
Well, the other day I turned my fuel pressure up to 62 psi and 2 degrees retarded ignition timing, and- Amazing!! I am able to run 8 psi on 92 octane with no pinging!! It seems that I have to run really rich in order to not have detonation problems above 6 psi. Its like it needs excess fuel in the cylinders to cool it down in there. It might be that my little eclipse intercooler just isn't doing the job above 6 psi. But I don't really see that being the case since eclipses run 10-18 psi with this intercooler with no problems.
[Modified by JFK78, 6:49 AM 12/10/2001]
Thread Starter
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From: Turboville,, Haulingass, US
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (2000EX)
–Missing Link - <- Do i need this if i am running the blue box??
No, actually, as mentioned, with a missing link the blue box (i think) wont work, so in effect, my setup (minus blue box) is what to focus on.
–AutoMeter Phantom Fuel Pres. Gauge - I guess i need one.
Yes, you do. IMO a must. FP takes a **** and you dont know it your f'd
–Holly 255lph in-tank Fuel Pump <- gonna get one in jan.
good. Make sure you get the HI FLOW one and I'd suggest WALBRO instead, this is a good placve to get one http://www.autoperformanceengineerin.../fuelpump.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow external">http://<a href="http://www.autoperfo...lpump.html</a>
–Vortech 10:1 FMU <- looking for one
–A’PEXi V-AFC <- looking for one
important
–MSD Blaster 3 Coil ------------ Was looking at MSD Digital 6, do i still need a coil?
yes, preferably go with MSD BTM so you only retard under boost. And make sure you get the proper coil, some can only be mounted straight up and down.
–MSD Pro Cap ------------------ Do i need a cap?
yes
–MSD Plug Wires-------------- Wires? honda makes really good wires, are aftermarkes really needed?
absolutley...they carry spark much better
–NuForms Block Guard - Did u need to machine the block? or does this drop right in?
with proper installation it taps in just fine, no welding, grinding, honing, boring or forcing required.
–2 Mil Head Gasket (GReddy, of course) <- is the really needed??
fairly important saftey feature..IMO yes, I woulldnt boost over 8psi without it.
–ARP Head Studs <- same as above
no, this you can do without, although I wasnt willing to. But of all the things here this is probably the one that you could leave out. The stock head bolts should work fine.
–NGK BCPR7ES-11 gap @ .32 - Got It, gotta check gap thou
Can i run 8lbs, w/o any of the items here that i dont have??
NO. You've got a stock fuel pump, no FPR aND NO FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE, not to mention stock ignition (which is a poorer spark) and wires...8PSI YOU'D BE LEAN AND POSSIBLY BLOW YOUR ENGINE. Opps, caps were by mistake, sorry.
You could run 8psi with everything EXCEPT block gaurd and 2 mil heaadgasket, and probably not the VAFC, although it would be unfortunate not to have that for fine tuning as you'd probably be rich at 8psi and would need to trim OUT fuel. A 8:1 FPR would help with this. The GReddy blue box might help with this, using no VAFC, however GReddy swears it doesnt adjust fuel over 6psi others say they are fine up to 8.
i mean do i have enough fuel to run more then 5.5 lbs? (NO) i am looking at the safe route b4 i go blowing up anything. (see above)
thanks!
you're welcome
No, actually, as mentioned, with a missing link the blue box (i think) wont work, so in effect, my setup (minus blue box) is what to focus on.
–AutoMeter Phantom Fuel Pres. Gauge - I guess i need one.
Yes, you do. IMO a must. FP takes a **** and you dont know it your f'd
–Holly 255lph in-tank Fuel Pump <- gonna get one in jan.
good. Make sure you get the HI FLOW one and I'd suggest WALBRO instead, this is a good placve to get one http://www.autoperformanceengineerin.../fuelpump.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow external">http://<a href="http://www.autoperfo...lpump.html</a>
–Vortech 10:1 FMU <- looking for one
–A’PEXi V-AFC <- looking for one
important
–MSD Blaster 3 Coil ------------ Was looking at MSD Digital 6, do i still need a coil?
yes, preferably go with MSD BTM so you only retard under boost. And make sure you get the proper coil, some can only be mounted straight up and down.
–MSD Pro Cap ------------------ Do i need a cap?
yes
–MSD Plug Wires-------------- Wires? honda makes really good wires, are aftermarkes really needed?
absolutley...they carry spark much better
–NuForms Block Guard - Did u need to machine the block? or does this drop right in?
with proper installation it taps in just fine, no welding, grinding, honing, boring or forcing required.
–2 Mil Head Gasket (GReddy, of course) <- is the really needed??
fairly important saftey feature..IMO yes, I woulldnt boost over 8psi without it.
–ARP Head Studs <- same as above
no, this you can do without, although I wasnt willing to. But of all the things here this is probably the one that you could leave out. The stock head bolts should work fine.
–NGK BCPR7ES-11 gap @ .32 - Got It, gotta check gap thou
Can i run 8lbs, w/o any of the items here that i dont have??
NO. You've got a stock fuel pump, no FPR aND NO FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE, not to mention stock ignition (which is a poorer spark) and wires...8PSI YOU'D BE LEAN AND POSSIBLY BLOW YOUR ENGINE. Opps, caps were by mistake, sorry.
You could run 8psi with everything EXCEPT block gaurd and 2 mil heaadgasket, and probably not the VAFC, although it would be unfortunate not to have that for fine tuning as you'd probably be rich at 8psi and would need to trim OUT fuel. A 8:1 FPR would help with this. The GReddy blue box might help with this, using no VAFC, however GReddy swears it doesnt adjust fuel over 6psi others say they are fine up to 8.
i mean do i have enough fuel to run more then 5.5 lbs? (NO) i am looking at the safe route b4 i go blowing up anything. (see above)
thanks!
you're welcome
[Modified by greyzone, 7:21 AM 12/10/2001]
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
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From: Turboville,, Haulingass, US
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (JFK78)
I am using the blue box with fuel pressure at 42 psi and the a/f ratio was perfect (12.5:1) at 7.5 psi on the dyno- but I was pinging at that boost level, even with 5 degrees retarded ignition timing and 99 octane fuel. I couldn't figure it out, so I just went back to 5.5 psi and left it there for a month. And now I'm tired of 5.5 psi.
[Modified by greyzone, 7:23 AM 12/10/2001]
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Posts: 1,376
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From: dirty jerzey, NJ, USA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (VTC_CiViC)
not bad 10 psi iin a single cam is fun my friend used to have something liek that but a little differnt that thing was chillin with a 300zx TT in the 1/4 it was pretty quick till someone shattered his dreams by stealing it, anyway good luck wit the single camT
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,096
Likes: 1
From: Bangkok, Thailand, Thailand
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (PROFILE GSR)
Geez, you guys sound like you're going through a hell of a lot of trouble. I've been the VAFC route, and all I ever got out of that was bad fuel economy. Installed the piggyback ECU, and everything's beautiful. I have power. I have torque. I'm running 18psi on my block daily, some days driving as much as 300km. No problems at all.
I understand what you guys are saying, about how you should make the best out of what you got, but sooner or later you're gonna go standalone, so why not just get it now?
I understand what you guys are saying, about how you should make the best out of what you got, but sooner or later you're gonna go standalone, so why not just get it now?
New User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,344
Likes: 0
From: MI, USA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (nathan's boosted civic)
I understand what you guys are saying, about how you should make the best out of what you got, but sooner or later you're gonna go standalone, so why not just get it now?
EXACTAMUNDO!!!
EXACTAMUNDO!!!
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 1
From: SpeedFactory, WA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (greyzone)
I'm running the walbro 255lph with a B&M commandflo FPR. I'm not using the boost dependent fpr, I'm using the blue box! And if my fuel was fine on the wideband then I'm not leaning out, right? OR is 12.5:1 OK for 6psi but not rich enough for higher boost levels? Did you read the rest of my post?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,613
Likes: 1
From: Naples, Fl, USA
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (nathan's boosted civic)
Nathan, the standalone is on it's way! Well, soon. I'm just undecided between the Hondata or AEM setups. Right now, 10psi is fun, but I'll want to see more soon, so I'm going with a full build next summer and a standalone to complement it. For now though, I'm pretty content with my car. I mean I'm pushing around about 190whp, laying down low 14's which is more than ALOT of people ever expect from a stock D16, and it only has room to get better.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,096
Likes: 1
From: Bangkok, Thailand, Thailand
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (VTC_CiViC)
speaking of which, I have hit *once* a 13.6 quartermile on 16" rims with street tires. that was at 18psi of boost that freaked a lot of people out, since no one here ever bothers with the D-series blocks (and everyone thought I had a B16A turbo.. haha lol). Everything here is B-series turbo. But then again, there are very -few- people in Thailand who know how to do a VTEC Turbo right (many mechanics here have no education and are very low-tech with electronics. They think if the fuel is enough, it won't break - a shame they always seem to forget about ignition..)
that freaked a lot of people out, since no one here ever bothers with the D-series blocks (and everyone thought I had a B16A turbo.. haha lol). Everything here is B-series turbo. But then again, there are very -few- people in Thailand who know how to do a VTEC Turbo right (many mechanics here have no education and are very low-tech with electronics. They think if the fuel is enough, it won't break - a shame they always seem to forget about ignition..)
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
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From: Turboville,, Haulingass, US
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (JFK78)
I'm running the walbro 255lph with a B&M commandflo FPR. I'm not using the boost dependent fpr, I'm using the blue box! And if my fuel was fine on the wideband then I'm not leaning out, right? OR is 12.5:1 OK for 6psi but not rich enough for higher boost levels? Did you read the rest of my post?
I am using the blue box with fuel pressure at 42 psi and the a/f ratio was perfect (12.5:1) at 7.5 psi on the dyno- but I was pinging at that boost level, even with 5 degrees retarded ignition timing and 99 octane fuel. I couldn't figure it out, so I just went back to 5.5 psi and left it there for a month. And now I'm tired of 5.5 psi.
Well, the other day I turned my fuel pressure up to 62 psi and 2 degrees retarded ignition timing, and- Amazing!! I am able to run 8 psi on 92 octane with no pinging!! It seems that I have to run really rich in order to not have detonation problems above 6 psi.
[Modified by greyzone, 9:35 PM 12/10/2001]
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 384
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From: Turboville,, Haulingass, US
Re: Back from the Dyno and happy again! (nathan's boosted civic)
speaking of which, I have hit *once* a 13.6 quartermile on 16" rims with street tires. that was at 18psi of boost that freaked a lot of people out, since no one here ever bothers with the D-series blocks
that freaked a lot of people out, since no one here ever bothers with the D-series blocks