greyzone

Alright! 192whp at 10 lbs of boost, FINALLY.

Im quite happy with that, this will easily do 210whp at 12 lbs boost.

And, this is with STOCK injectors and the HOLLEY 255lph INTANK pump, AND the VORTECH 10:1 FMU. A lot of people were gving me **** about this setup saying it wouldn't work, but its working pretty damn good AND running rich at 10lbs boost.

THe VAFC was priceless on the dyno and exceptionally responsive. Even at 10psi on the turbo the VAFC is still backing fuel OUT at approximately -7% on the WOT (wide position on the VAFC). I amazed that there is so much adjustabliity still left on the VAFC, like moving towards +5 or +10% enrichment would be more than rich enough even at 12lbs of boost.

THis setup is working MUCH better than going to RC 310s, which would make idling and daily driver tuning/performance difficult (at best). I see no need for 310s, especially when with stock injectors im still backing fuel OUT at 10 lbs boost.

Damn, ive been working towards these numbers for a long time. Ever since 150whp when it was turbo only at 6psi my goal was 200whp and im finally there! WIth this setup I should easily be able to boost 12lbs at the track with hi octane (110+) and be at damn close to 220whp.

Man, this thing is hauling ***!

This is pretty much everything engine related:
–96 EX Coupe 5spd
–1.6L SOHC VTEC D16Y8
–GReddy Turbo w/Blue Box
–GReddy Type S BOV
–GReddy T-31 Intercooler
–GReddy Boost Controller, Profec-B
–GReddy EVO Exhaust
–Gutted Oversize CAT
–Missing Link
–AutoMeter Phantom Boost Gauge
–AutoMeter Phantom Fuel Pres. Gauge
–HKS Turbo Timer
–Holly 255lph in-tank Fuel Pump
–Vortech 10:1 FMU
–A’PEXi V-AFC
–MSD SCI Ignition
–MSD Blaster 3 Coil
–MSD Pro Cap
–MSD Plug Wires
–NuForms Block Guard
–2 Mil Head Gasket (GReddy, of course)
–ARP Head Studs
–NGK BCPR7ES-11 gap @ .32




[Modified by greyzone, 1:51 AM 11/15/2001]

SiRkid

x

LsTurbo91

List your mods and how much boost?

JFK78

Hey man- Those #'s look good!! Congrats!
Just to clarify, I'm assuming that you are still running the blue box along with the vortec 10:1 fmu, right? What was your a/f ratio at on these runs? I'm kind of surprised that you only had to trim -7% at WOT. I figured you would have to pull a lot more than that. And what is your ignition timing at?

greyzone

I believe my ignition timing is at 4 retarded (might be 5). Im sure with 310s Id of had to pull out more fuel, even with an 8:1. I think the reason for only -7 is the stock injectors. Of course, I am running the Holley up to about 90psi, so it will be intersting to see if it holds up to the higher pressures. My idle fuel pressure is now at 42 and thats a bit high, id rather see that at 36 or so, but if thats the biggest problem ive got (which right now it is) then Im in pretty damn good shape.

That is correct, I am using the blue box with 10:1, the A/F #s were in the 12s at 10 lbs boost and on the low boost setting at 7 lbs the A/F was in the high 10s. That was the compromise we had to settle for on the dyno, to get it right for the higher setting (10lbs boost) and still have it run decent at the low setting (7psi for daily driver).

Thats the main reson I didnt go to 11 or 12 psi on the dyno, while it would have taken it with fuel left over, it then would have been WAY too rich at 7 or 8 psi and thats where I do 85% of my driving.

I am just really happy to know that this setup can handle the 12 lbs boost with higher octane, and/or on those really cold nights when I wanna crank up the boost and richen up the fuel a bit.

All in all, this setup is proving to be very flexible and reliable. So far I have about 30,000 miles on this turbo and its still running strong.

An interesting note: Charles at GReddy is the one who told me to set this car up this way. It was an act of faith on my part, about 4 months and $3,000 ago. At the starting point I was only at 150whp and basically had nothing but the turbo by itself. I basically did everything they said (with exception of MSD BTM ignition) and its worked out exactly as represented. I cant begin to tell you how happy I am about that.

In a world full of bullshit, GReddy is right on with the truth...maybe thats why they chose Trust, eh?

Now I can finally feel confident to take this thing to the track and get some times on it, the bugs seem to be worked out...at least for now.

tararan

now thats great to hear... i just boosted my 00exand got lots of plan for it... you just motivated me.... where did you get your car dynoed? and what part of diego you from... im in santa barbara and i come home over there once in awhile, may be i can check your car out.. aight late

TheX-Man

Great numbers man, One question though, I thought an ex redlines at like 6800 or 7000, how come it doesn't go that far.

willyboyK20

you are my hero. It's nice to see some one on this board that is actually has a greddy kit for a civic it is not dissing it to ****. I have a new inspiration

InfamousDX

lookin' good. 192 whp out of a greddy kit is great, especially at only 10 psi.

greyzone

tararan,
that'd be north San Diego, e me if your gonna be in the area. Got the car dynoed in Escondido at MechTech, these guys are wizards...specialize in turbo and hi performance, damn expensive tho, mostly do beemers and **** like that.

X-Man,
Yes, redline is at 7000 but I told them i want them to stop at 6500, save my motor the unecessary stress. I myself rarely drive it over 6500, to me theres no reason to have the shop make several runs pushing it that hard. Even tho I beat the **** outta my motor i still baby it too! looks like it might have hit 200whp at 7000.

Hey ***** Boy,
No dissing GReddy here, their cool with me.

Thanks for sharing my joy guys


[Modified by greyzone, 7:34 AM 11/15/2001]

Smashback

This brings up a question. I noticed this guy has a 10:1 FMU. I have a 12 but was told I need a 10. Here's the setup:

96 DX w/ported EX head/62mm TB
Revhard Manifold
T3/4
Tial wg
Turbo XS BOV
Turbo XS high perf boost cont
big fat Spearco IC
2/2.5 IC piping
3" downpipe
3" carsound cat
2.25" exhaust (for now)

I'm going to start at 8 PSI. I think the specs on the turbo were

Stage 3, .54 AR .. bla bla bla

Should be going on in about a week so I want to get the right FMU ... to tide me over until Haltek time.


As far as this Greddy setup goes, pretty nice! The bad part is you're about maxed out. I don't think I've seen a Greddy SOHC go above 210.


[Modified by mplex2000, 11:31 AM 11/15/2001]

EP3_05

I see you posted that dyno sheet. Those are some excellent numbers especially running the setup that you have. I had one question for you. Are you going to boost any higher and if you are what kind of setup are you going to run for engine and fuel managment?

falcongsr

over 150ft-lbs of torque from 4000-6500rpm


ahhh...now i know why i could kill that EX off the line, and she would blow by me 5 seconds later...

greyzone

mplex2000,
I dont see any fuel pump listed??? Are you thinking 12:1 w/ stock fuel pump? THats not a good idea, except maybe (and this is a stretch) your only at 5psi and its a very cold day...

Whats making my setup work with the hi flo pump and the 10:1 is the VAFC, without that flexiblility this setup would be **** for fuel managememnt and would be running choking rich in places and possibly lean in others.

As far as being maxed out at 210whp thats totally fine, my target goal all along was 200. Thats about 240 crank and thats really the max for these mostly stock internals anyway. Besides, 210 whp in a 2500 lb car is pretty insane, at least compared to the 105whp it had stock. As far as boosting any more with this setup that would be a bad idea. For one the GReddy turbo cant do over 14/15 psi AND the stock internals certainly cant handle anything more than what Im forcing on them already.

My main problem now is I need a stronger pressure plate cause the ACT Heacyduty one I got (stage one) cant handle it. GOnna probably get the ACT Extreme pressure plate to try and fix this while keeping the ACT street disc already on there. But this is a good problem to have cause its caused by too much horsepower.

I must admit i envy numbers ive seen on this board of 300whp and more from some b18s...maybe someday, but not with this car. For now this setup is doing pretty damn good.



[Modified by greyzone, 6:59 PM 11/15/2001]

VTC_CiViC

In a word.. awesome I'm glad to see you're getting such excellent numbers out of your GReddy setup. I think the reason people were giving you so much crap about running the 10:1 FMU on stock injectors with an intank was because you're running a bluebox, and I didn't recall reading that before. The bluebox totally changes the game since it alters your injector pulses, thus reducing the back pressure built up in the rail since your injectors are flowing much more than the stock 240cc. Now had you NOT been running the bluebox, and stuck with your stock injectors and a 10:1 FMU and the 255lph intank...:BOOM:! But anyways, glad to see you got it running right. I personally run 440cc injectors on my 98 EX w/ LOTS of V-AFC trim (-45% idle, -20% @ full boost 8.5-9psi) with a 255lph intank and it's running pretty good, but I definatley need to decide whether to go standalone (AEM EMS or Hondata), or just slap on a bluebox, go back to my stock injectors and be happy with 9psi. Has GReddy said anything about how much boost that bluebox can handle? I heard it was around 9-10psi, and I see you wanna push 12psi, might wana check with GReddy about that. Anyways, congrats on the setup, keep on sticking it to the DOHC crowd like I am

greyzone

Got a question for you: -45% at idle?? How do you get the VAFC to effect idle? THe narrow throttle adjustment wont go below 1000 rpms and idle is below that...is there a way to compensate for that?? My base FP is sitting at 44psi and my engine is choking a bit at idle. Perhaps a B&M command flow would be the answer for that? But then, if I lower my base FP to, say, 36, all my dyno number would be off and id need to retune it by richening it up a bit under boost.

Good thoughts about the blue box, I need to call GReddy to clarify that. One problem is trying to get a blue box aftermarket is next to impossible. GReddy wont send you one unless you but the whole kit. Youd have to find someone who was selling it outright. I talked with GReddys techs recently and they said the have a new generation blue box coming out that will be fully adjustable, whereas this blue box has virtually no adjustments.

Question on your 440s: How are you running OUT of boost?? Just city driving and freeway crusing kind of stuff?? My shop told me even 310s it would be a headache and cause me more problems than they'd be worth in those areas....yeah, theyd run great under boost but Id sacrafice a lot of nonboost driving applications. What are your thoughts/experience with these issues??

I love this board!!! Fok all the naysayers!

greyzone

Okay, just talked with GReddy tech department. This is my understanding of a mystery wrapped inside an enigma: heres the scoop:

GReddy (FCU) Blue box summary:
(FCU is “Fuel Control Management.”)
The stock MAP sensor can actually read up to 12psi of boost, however it has no fuel map provisions for anything over zero pressure. This is where the GReddy FCU comes into play, it provides a fuel map for the ECU from zero pressure up to about 6psi of boost. It also prevents a CEL from coming on with any positive boost pressure readings at the MAP sensor, thereby eliminating the need for check valves or missing link. From 6psi up to 12psi the GReddy FCU still prevents any CELs but it has no fuel map provisions for anything beyond 6psi. This is where secondary fuel management is needed. Over 12psi, secondary fuel management continues to be required, but in reality, the GReddy FCU is not doing anything over 6psi except preventing a CEL. This begs the question, would a CEL come on a over 12psi? GReddy says no, that the FCU will prevent this with no upper limitations. Isn’t that the ****!

Interesting note on my setup: since I am using the missing link on my set up, I am more than likely preventing the MAP sensor from seeing ANYTHING over zero pressure, as a result, the GReddy FCU is not reading anything over zero pressure; as a result, the GReddy blue box is having absolutely NO EFFECT on my setup. Isn’t that interesting!

By taking my missing link OUT, it would then pass on positive pressure to the MAP sensor where the GReddy FCU could read it, and begin providing additional fuel maps to the ECU for zero to 6psi of turbo boost. Then, from 6psi to 12 psi I would further adjust my setup using the VAFC. What allows this fuel management system to work effectively, over 6psi, is the 255 intank pump, the Vortech 10:1 FMU and the VAFC.

I’ll be damn. Here we’ve been giving all kinds of credit to the blue box on my setup (myself included) and theres a good chance its been totally disabled by the missing link. Theres humor in there somewhere. Sometimes you just never know, but (hopefully) learn as you go!

In any event, this means that I shouldn’t take off the missing link until I’m on the dyno again (which will be soon cause I have some other ideas). But then again, I hear the argument if it works dont fix it. The good news is that my setup may have no need for the blue box which would make it available to more people, since the blue box is next to impossible to get.

Whew! Keep it wimple? Not with forced induction baby!


[Modified by greyzone, 8:15 PM 11/15/2001]

Smashback

Clutches ... yes ... I got the Stage II so we'll see how that holds up. I am gonna go with a 255lph pump. I should get the high pressure, but hopefully in a few weeks (probably will end up being months) I'll get rid of the VAFC and instal an E6K.

I'm shooting for minimum 200 HP now and much higher after building, but that part is a long way off. BUT, you can always snag a TD05-14B and replace the Greddy turbo when you're ready for more.

And you're right about the weight (and B18 300 HP envy)...that's what I'm counting on to save my ***. Since there aren't TOO many people with a B18 swap and turbo in these little Civics.

Smashback

I've seen several guys running 10 PSI plus with a Greddy and stock injectors though ..

VTC_CiViC

Well damn! If nothing else, that's pretty interesting! I say remove the Missing Link and see how the GReddy FCU operates under boost. If anything, it *should* help since before it was basically running on stock fuel maps, and now you'd be running GReddy's fuel enhanced maps, and worse case, it'll run crappy and you can just re-install the link. I do think it'll help though. Though, it's still interesting to think that the FCU is seeing nothing more than 0 pressure, meaning it's not really forcing the injectors to change their pulse much from stock, meaning there's alot of room for improvement there. Kinda perplxing how you didn't run leaner. Did you check what your injector were running (duty) at 10psi? I'd be affraid it's awfully close to 80% which is teetering on the edge of lockup.

As for my V-AFC, yes it's trimmed -45% at idle. The V-AFC adjusts for every value under the predetermined point up to 999rpm, so for 1-999rpm it's at -45%, which means that while my car is idling it's running -45% correction. I have it set up for -45% @1k, -40% @2k, so based on that from 1-1000rpm it's at -45%, then from 1001-2000rpm it adjusts itself to -40% in a linear fashion.

With the 440 the car is driving fine. I do get occasional "hiccups" where the car will feel like it simply cuts out for a second, and it'll repeat this for a bit, but it only occurs at like 4-7% throttle and only for a few seconds. I have no idea why, but it does it. Also, because the V-AFC is TPS and RPM dependent, I can't really get it give me fuel *only* when I'm under boost, it's kind of a "hit-or-miss" setup I have, leaning more towards the richer side of things, but untill I modify the V-AFC to read boost instead of TPS, I'll have to live with it. It's no big deal though really, I've gotten totally used to it and don't really notice the little glitch here or there anymore, and the on boost feel is excellent. I'll sonnd decide to either go all out with a total build up including standlone, or just slap on a bluebox and call it a day (with some stocks or 310's vs. my 440's).

VTC_CiViC

With the blue box or a high pressure inline pump, it's not impossible by any means, but with an FMU and an intank, you're asking for trouble!



[Modified by VTC_CiViC, 4:00 PM 11/15/2001]

Smashback

I feel like I'm going to be asking for trouble either way. These FMU's are not the best solution at all and they make me nervous, but considering the price tag on a Haltech, the FMU will have to do at least for a while

BUT, I still am not sure if I should be using a 10:1 or 12:1..

VTC_CiViC

What fuel pump are you running? What injectors?

Smashback

Stock EX injectors for now, and I'll get the Walbro 255lph.

greyzone

DAve,
So at the 1000 narrow throttle setting the VAFC is affecting trim starting a 1 rpm? I thought it started at 1000 so that everything under 1000 was uneffected, but you're saying it will effect duty cycle in the 500 or 600 range as well?? THats really good news if thats the case.

That info on the blue box helps solve a lot of mystery and misinformation as well. Im looking forward to getting back on the dyno soon to take some time with two issues, 1) Take off m/link and see how blue box performs zero to 6 lbs boost (but remember, the blue box only has fuel maps up to 6 lbs boost), and 2) see if I can still run rich up to 12 lbs boost. I think the intank is pretty well maxed out at this point, so to get it richer the VAFC is the final option, in effect, I can probably take it up to about 15% enrichment before it would be at 100% of duty cycle capability.

Another intereseting thing of note: the GReddy FCU is mapped for 92-95 OBD I applications and 98-00 SI (OBD II?) applications. THey dont have any numbers/perfomance figures on other applications so its still a mystery on how well it really will work with my 96 OBDII. Hmm. Food for thought.

Do you have any inforamtion of making the VAFC capable of boost dependant fuel managment? I really like the sound of that. But, what would be used to prevent a MAP sensor CEL?


[Modified by greyzone, 6:12 AM 11/16/2001]