just_bn_me83

I have a B18C1 in an ek hatch. I am putting a turbo kit together over these next few months and any info, advice, experience, leads on parts, etc is appreciated!! The Motor has around 60k...I am not doing internals. I have a stage 1 Exedy and Competition Clutch Flywheel, Skunk2 IM, 3" exhaust. I am planning on buying a Garret GT2860RS and appropriate ramhorn manifold. I found a deal on black top denso 450cc injectors with resistor box...my overall goal is 250-280 hp. It's a daily driver and I do not intend on ever going more than that with this particular car. Nothing has been purchased so if anyone has info on good prices, good used parts (FMIC, piping, etc), some one who knows how to tune, what brands to avoid, etc...any info is helpful. I want the car set up for handling and speed not drag. Again I am piecing it together over the winter in time for spring so please keep this going with tips, parts, or advice! I will post when parts are bought and keep it current as i go. THANKS to all!
first question to get things going....as far as a turbo, what would be better suited for top end (speed), I'm more interested in smooth powerband and nice speed rather than drag style acceleration...again this is a daily but i want to have fun on the blvd on the weekends and the highways.

just_bn_me83

come on...88 views and not one of you has any sound advice or knows where to find good prices, etc? What? Just bc I am not going after 300+ hp it's not interesting? I bet if I started the thread off by saying "I want to buy an ebay turbo....best advice please" I'd have a few by now! lol.

Grujo

GT2860RS is a great turbo but kinda pricy for that set up. I would just go with a average sized thrust bearing turbo. I know it won't spool as fast but like you said you only want 280whp. A lot of turbos will get you there. Just don't go over kill and throw away money on expensive turbos that your going to run at or around 13psi.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

lol

I started out just as you did before i opted for a larger turbo.


Here is what you'll want to google and search on the honda-tech archives for threads on:
T28
18G
GT28rs
apexi turbo kit

all those will get you the power you want out of your GSR.


With that said, a turbo guru said that many new boosted guys make the mistake of getting a turbo that is too small and not enough room to feed their growth. They think instant boost is a good thing but forget about traction issues at low speeds (under 55mph) that comes with tiny peaky turbos. Your not the first and you won't be the last to have that kind of thinking. It's almost a "natural" progression form of thinking before your understanding of powerband and topend power evolve.

Ask anyone who has made 250-350whp.....90% of them always go for more power within a few years. However i find that talking with many h-tech members over the years, those that made 350-450whp are often satisfied with that range of power and a lower % of them shoot for anything beyond 450whp range.

IF you are going to be dedicated to the honda scene for 3-5yrs or more here are my tips:
1) get a good manifold even if you have to save up money
2) find a turbo that will max out around 350-380whp but still get's full spool 4000-4300rpms... very possible

all other parts such as injectors, exhaust, down pipe, wastegate, boost controlers, clutches, fmic are irrelivent at this point if you cannot decide on your manifold and turbo.

if you are only going to play with hondas for 2-3yrs then let me piece together a kit for your immediate needs.

1) blox cast manifold T3 manifold
2) T3/T4 50 trim .63AR
3) 2.5" downpipe
4) pte 550 or larger injectors
5) any bov
6) any wg will do but I'd reccomend turbomart or tial
7) chipped ob1 ecu + crome
8) cx 2.5 charge piping
9) cxracing.com 2.5 coupler and tbolt clamp set
10) cxracing.com FMIC something that will fit most civic/teg grill is 12x6x2.5" w/out cutting bumper.
11) autometer or better boost gauge, oil press
12) any 2.25 exhaust will be just fine for under 300whp.
13) stealthmode.com oil line kit
14) filter for turbo
15) good clutch like CC stage 4 sprung... love mine...
16) walbro 255lph intake fuel pump
17) ... I would get a blox IM or skunk2 IM over the stock gsr one.... that's just me...


If you have over 150K on your motor, I would reccomend you to get a new head gasket and ARP head studs for added assures and it will save you money/headache after you boost.


Good luck researching

just_bn_me83

Thank you Charlie! Thats more like it. So you mention traction issues at low speeds, do you mean breaking them loose to easily? And i definitely agree with the idea i will want more power one day but that would be a different car down the road a few years. For this car 250-280 is all i am going for. also you mention cast manifold...would i be better off with a ramhorn style or for my goals will a cast suit the bill?
side notes on your comments...only 60k on motor, have a skunk2 pro series IM already, as well as 3" exhaust, have the chipped obd1 conversion (i know it has to be re tuned), have prosport gauges (not boost yet), ordered 450cc injectors and 255 walbro....have a Exedy stage 1 currently...will it hold up to 6-7lbs of boost?

just_bn_me83

anyone have any experience with this kit...
greddy 11550031

just_bn_me83

Yeah, agreed! My goal is no more than 7psi, 8 is absolute max. I want the motor to be fun but not on the verge of detonating... not trying to stress the motor and make it try to do things it can't on stock internals.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

I have stock gsr long block with skunk2 IM
mini-ram manifold
gt3540s turbo
260whp @ 6psi
315whp @ 10psi
full boost at 4400rpms even though this turbo is rate at max 24psi +600whp...

So it's possible to get a nice spooling turbo and have room for growth.


Don't cut yourself short on experiancing different setups as long as the material is quaity & good design, it won't be any issue lasting you years & holding it's value if you need to resell it.

For now I would just keep your setup SIMPLE as possible and don't get too caught up in what you see other have or cars in magazine.

A cast manifold is fine for your 280whp goals. You'll have faster spool even though your topend COULD benefit from a higher flowing manifold like mini-ram or full-ram manifold.

If your making 280whp your tq will only be around 190ish..
Exedy Stg1 is rated at 240tq....
So it will hold the power but it's only a matter of time before it goes out.
The clutch is one of the FEW items in your setup where you can go a little overkill on and you'll still rep the benefit of being able to abuse it with out sacraficing clutch life.

If your getting full spool at like 2500rpms you'll have major traction issues with street tires, but if you get full spool at 3500rpm that means you should have about 700-1000rpm to play with in therms of modulating your boost while driving on the street.

Just keep that in mind.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

for your goals.. i would stay away from overpriced kits from companies like greddy....

You should be able to piece together a qaulity kit for $1800-2000...TOPS!

if your going to spend +$3500 or so on a kit it better be a Full-Race turbo kit

just_bn_me83

2G!? really? I am not afraid to spend the money right the first time, from what I have read I was expecting to be in the 3-4G range...I would really like a better top end so a ram or mini ram would be first choice. Not really trying to shread tires every where I go something that spools up a little later no biggy...

just_bn_me83

the gt35 family seems like it is made for huge horsepower applications...this turbo wouldn't be overkill for my goals? I know with something that spools faster i have traction issues but will i have "issues" having something thats made to produce more power than what i will have it tuned for?

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

for 280whp.... your not going to see any WHP different if you got a full ram or used cast manifold... well maybe 5-10whp difference between 7500-8200rpms but spool up will be sacraficed.

The reason why there's little to no difference in your application is because full-ram style manifold are used for higer boost, larger turbo, high whp applications and your setup isn't geard towards it so the gains are little if any.

I know this from several of people local to me who have gone with top mounts or full rams when their turbo was too small or their whp goals didn't justify it.

GL

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

just because it's call "GT35" doesn't mean anything.... it's all about the specs of the turbo.

no you won't have as much traction issuse when using a turbo larger than your "initial/current/lower" hp goals.

for example I use a gt3540s and that maxes out at 600whp @ 24psi full spool @ 4400rpms

Ideally i was going to get a "silver surfer" which maxes out at 500-530whp @ 22psi full spool @ 4K

since I'm only shooting for 400-450whp max the surfer is my IDEAL choice,
however I picked up a new GT3540S from a local person for cheap, if it wasn't for discount price I would of just bought the Silver Surfer.

Now i have a larger turbo than my goals but it still works... getting full spool at 4K would be nice but 4400rpms is not bad either..

Hope that helps

just_bn_me83

Great info...so definitely sounds like a cast would be better and it would save me money compared to full ram. any particular company you would say is better or companies to avoid when shopping for cast mani?

just_bn_me83

So comparing the two (GT35 & GT28) the 35 will spool slower and at a higher rpm and the gt28 will spool much quicker and lower rpms....will i get the same power gain at 7psi from both set up's? because if thats the case i would be better off having a turbo that gets full spool at 4k or after as far as drivability is concerned?

dszer89

CROWER FTW

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

I get what your trying to do... cause I did the same thing long ago...
your trying to logically compare whp per psi for each turbo.

What you may not realize is each turbos "efficenty" range...

PM TheShodan... he can explain it better than i can

just_bn_me83

just PM'd him...guess wait and see what he says...

just_bn_me83

After a few back and forths with TheShoden Things have been made a little clearer, pointed me in the right direction. Going to start piecing things together and will post as it gets going. THANK you all!

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

he's my turbo guru...

just_bn_me83

He definitely knows his ****! Made things a lot clearer for me, pointed me in a direction that i should save a good chunck of money and have a nice lil setup!

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

what what turbo are you going with GT32?

just_bn_me83

"Actually, the Go-Autowerks kit is an excellent way to start. You want the 57 trim Garrett turbocharger only. Do not go Borg-Warner or Precision. The other turbocharger to go with is the GT3255B." - TheShodan

i was thinkin the t3/4 because from what i gather it would spool a little higher in the rpms, i don't want to have huge issues with fast spool and breaking loose everywhere i go... i think of the situation of driving 75mph on the highway and as is 75mph is right under 4k, smaller turbo would be into boost the whole time...from what i kinda understan...where as the t3/4 would spool up in between 4k-4500k which would be less stress on the trubo and put the power where i want it. these are my thought but I am still trying to understand the math and theory. ugh.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The GT3255B would do an even better job of the powerband than even the 57 trim. You're going to "break tires loose" no matter what you do because its an FWD application over 300whp. so don't think of it like that. Look at powerband in between gear shifts to help understand how it works. you won't "overstress" the turbo unless you're pushing it past its efficiency range. In this case the GT3255B 25psi, while the 57 trim is about 22-23psi. Only then are you stressing anything.

hiiimseth

id just use dsm 450cc injectors they work fine i use to run them. also a 50trim is gonna spool quick even on 7psi your gonna be rippin the tires of. a 50 is ideal for a b16. do a 57trim they make good and safe power. note the faster the spool the harder it is on your rods. its easy to part a kit together. like CHARLIE said save for a good manifold or just get a cast iron one they work fine. my old b16 made 420 with a cast iron mani and a 57trim.

Note: everyone does things different man. to be safe go with a bigger turbo like a 57trim. idk who tunes around you. but My guys out here at Englishracing do CraZY good work. Tj is the master Honda tuner in the NW!! Its all about the tuner!! you will be safe up to 10psi.. My friend Ran his teg with like 160kplus miles on 440whp on E85 on a tj tune. Rippen it at the track every weekend ect