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I have recently changed the timing belt, water pump, and head gasket on my hatch. Before I changed it, it never used any oil or smoked at all. Now the car seems to smoke at random times, mainly at high rpms or when I really get on it. Before I put the new head gasket on, I had the head checked and the valves were not leaking. I was told by one person it could be the oil seal in my turbo. Any ideas on what else it could be? It never burned any oil before I changed the head gasket. I have my turbo apart and i have a few pictures of the bearings. Would someone be able to tell me if they are bad?
Bearing on the left is from the intake side of the turbo and the one on the right is the exhaust side.
<p>@wantboost@TheShodan</p><p> </p><p>OP, I'd recommend you politely ask a moderator to move your thread to FI. That exhaust bearing looks burned to ****, though.</p>
Turbonetics?
What manifold?
Are you running a restrictor?
How's the drain setup?
The coloration would indicate high heat as you probly know, just how bad the shaft is would be better answered by someone with more experience than me.
You gonna rebuild it yourself?
I was unclear of where to post my question because I had multiple questions in one. If it is not the turbo causing the car to burn oil, what could it be? It should not be the valves. The machine shop said everything was good with the head. I am using a cheap log style manifold. There is a restrictor on the turbo. I plan on rebuilding it myself, then having it sent out to be balanced somewhere.
That looks like a text book case of oil starvation.
1- The journal bearing is horribly discolored, (although not scarred, which would be a sign of metal contamination in the oil),
2-The turbine wheel is burned beyond reuse and is deformed on the molecular level. That cannot be repolished, reused or rebuild in any capacity. The "bluing" on that turbine shaft is severe!!
3- Rear oil sealing ring looks fine. It's not "the seals"...
Whatever is causing the burning oil is more than likely the result of your turbocharger's demise, not the cause. What you're smelling is burned oil and burned metal at the turbocharger. And like most "sheeple" that don't know much about turbocharging, its not from "the seals", as though it is some grommet or rubber sealant. That turbo is officially destroyed and is more costly to attempt to repair than it is to simply purchase another one.
But before you do that, you need to answer B and B's questions with some photos showing what restrictor you're using (I'm sure you used one, and more than likely the wrong on at that), your oil feed and drain setup, and how you have the turbocharger oriented, as well as your oil pump configuration and engine type.
If these questions are not answered, you could buy a whole new turbocharger and STILL have the same result.
The restrictor was on the turbo when I got it. The feed and return lines are from B&R fittings, not that it makes any difference. I will get a picture of how and where it is mounted. The feed line is off a T in the stock oil pressure port. I don't know how it would be oil starvation. It only started smoking after I changed the head gasket and timing belt. Before, it never used a drop of oil.
I don't know if it makes any difference but when I noticed it was starting to burn oil, I took my air filter off and noticed a small amount of oil. I wiped it up gently and put the filter back on. I drove it for a little while and checked it again. There was another small deposit of oil.
That doesn't even look like a restrictor. Any idea as to apeture size?
That turbo was on its way out for a while, and more than likely would have occurred whether or not you change those parts. It just conveniently died at that point.
lines and fittings do make a difference, but it wasn't a B&R Fittings restrictor or fitting. Turbonetics had a few different requirements than most other companies, so what worked for the prior owner may not work for you..That's why you use equipment relevant to your engine and not from a prior setup.
So if you had to autopsy his turbo, what was the sequence of events as best you could tell?
I ponder these failures.
Did the bearing fail first and heat affect the tension of the sealing ring allowing oil blow-by? The heat reached out that far?
And why oil on intake side? Same thing? Heat deformed the intake side seal also?
Or combo of that and restrictive drain flange maybe causing a little backup?
Is it possible to starve it and have oil backing up?
The turbo never really failed. I got tired of my afr reading being really rich. Before all this happened, it ran around 15 to 16 at idle and 10.5 to 11 at wot. Now, when I start the car, it runs at 15 for maybe 15 seconds, then goes to 11.5 to 12. It doesn't seem to change from there no matter what I do with the gas pedal other than when I let off. I pulled the turbo off to just to rebuild it to try and stop the oil leaking and I found the turbo to be worse than I anticipated. I don't actually know if the turbo was causing the oil leak but because of the oil behind the air filter, I really guessed it was the problem. As far as the oil pressure, I'm going to get flamed for this. I never hooked up my oil pressure gauge so I cannot tell you a pressure reading. What promoted me to changed the head gasket and timing belt was overheating problems that randomly started on a 90 degree day. I had a lot of hills to climb at a slow speed and it almost immediately started getting hot. I never let it over heat but it definitely had some kind of problem
As far is the previous owner of the turbo kit I got, I know that it came off a b18b1 just like mine. The only difference was it was an Integra not an eg hatch. I bought the feed and return lines new so hopefully they are not responsible for this. The only thing I am unsure of is if the return line is positioned correctly with enough downward slope to prevent oil build up. This was my first turbo build so I was and still am learning as I go along.
Since only the turbine side bearing and side of the shaft show oil starvation it's fairly obvious to me at least that some sort of debris travelled down the oil feed line and blocked the oil passage inside the CHRA that feeds the turbine side of the shaft. If you're running the feed line from the oil pressure sender port without a filter then the unfiltered oil feeding the turbo is 110% what caused it.
What likely happened is when you had the head off part of the old gasket or something fell in the motor, oil pump sucked it up and fed it to the turbo.
I'm positive if you run a small piece of wire down each bearing feed port there will be debris in the turbine side.
Even though it has actually failed. Sure. Good call on that one.
Originally Posted by Cummins4LF
I got tired of my afr reading being really rich. Before all this happened, it ran around 15 to 16 at idle and 10.5 to 11 at wot.
Not relevant..
Originally Posted by Cummins4LF
Now, when I start the car, it runs at 15 for maybe 15 seconds, then goes to 11.5 to 12. It doesn't seem to change from there no matter what I do with the gas pedal other than when I let off.
Still not relevant...
Originally Posted by Cummins4LF
I pulled the turbo off to just to rebuild it to try and stop the oil leaking and I found the turbo to be worse than I anticipated. I don't actually know if the turbo was causing the oil leak but because of the oil behind the air filter, I really guessed it was the problem.
Nope.. Turbos themselves are self-contained units. The oil behind the air filter is simply crank case vapor that's either coming from the engine bay or from the compressor cover due to crank case pressure. That crankcase oil pressure doesn't lubricate anything within the CHRA itself, so no.. the turbo is done. It may have still spun for a while, but it was just a matter of time before full seizure.
Originally Posted by Cummins4LF
As far as the oil pressure, I'm going to get flamed for this. I never hooked up my oil pressure gauge so I cannot tell you a pressure reading.
No. you won't get flamed, because most who need one, don't use one. In your case, you're like every other B18B1 (Unless you've changed the physicality of your oil pump, like using a shim or anything to alter normal oil pressure, you'll be at the 65-80psi of oil pressure at cold start. Which means the correct restrictor should have been used. What you had was... well, a restrictor, but who knows what size it was. either way, it was the part of the problem.
Originally Posted by Cummins4LF
What promoted me to changed the head gasket and timing belt was overheating problems that randomly started on a 90 degree day. I had a lot of hills to climb at a slow speed and it almost immediately started getting hot. I never let it over heat but it definitely had some kind of problem
Let's get to the meat of it, shall we?
Originally Posted by Cummins4LF
I bought the feed and return lines new so hopefully they are not responsible for this. The only thing I am unsure of is if the return line is positioned correctly with enough downward slope to prevent oil build up. This was my first turbo build so I was and still am learning as I go along.
The lines themselves, no.. Highly doubtful. The fact that its centered around the oil sending unit..... possible factor, but not completely determinable as wantboost states to instill fear in you.. The fact that it was unfilter oil, yes... Any type of metal babbit or debris from the oiling system can easily block the passage that leads into the turbocharger. Either way, he is right... something blocked oil passages to starve that turbo.
You can't have oil backup from over pressurization and starvation at the same. That's like saying someone died of thirst in the desert while still having water in his stomach.. doesn't make sense.
Okay. Clearly I have a lot to learn. I appreciate all the informative responses. I guess I got lucky when I decided to pull the turbo. I would have been upset when I ended up with parts of a broken turbo in my cylinders. I couldn't get a good picture of it, but in the oil restrictor or whatever it is, there is a mesh, screen type filter. I don't know if that helps. If I should be using a sandwich plate, what brand is best because I have heard of the same thing happening to turbos fed off a sandwich plate.
Golden Eagles sandwich plate is the only one I know of that feeds filtered oil to its two outlet ports.
A separate inline oil filter is what will help more than anything, be it Earl's or anything else. Right in the feed line itself. Then you don't have to worry about it from either feed location.
08-23-2015, 07:19 PM
B18b1 turbo smokes
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