ef9civicgen4

heres my setup:

GE sleeved B16, stock bore/stroke, 8.5:1 pistons, stock head/throttle body/cams, msd billet dizzy coil/ignitor, crp ramhorn mani, garrett t3/t4 turbo 60trim, 3" dp/exhaust, tial 38mm, 880cc, bkr7e's gapped @ .024, hondata s300. those are the main things.

this is the confusing part, before it was just rod/piston on stock sleeves. made 417whp 282tq @ 23psi. since then the only changed have been s300, supertech valvetrain, the msd, and ge sleeves. well, i got my car on the dyno for the first time since the rebuild, and we gave up after only making 312whp @ 20psi.

wtf? im reving to 9300 compared to 8400 on the old motor, we tried more timing, and leaner a/f and still wouldnt make anyhwere close to the same power. also the car is very boggy under 3000rpm.

weve basically narrowed it down to a timing issue, cuz the s300 showed that the timing was jumping from 14-24 degrees @ idle (very quickly). when we tried to time it with the timing light, it was no where near where it should be. the closest we could get it to 16 was with the distributor fully advanced, and it still wasnt right. when we checked the cam/crank timing, when the cams were tdc, it seemed like the crank was a 1/2 tooth off. about an 1/8 of an inch left of the mark on the lower timing cover.


CAMS AT TDC


WHERE CRANK IS IN RELATION TO CAMS BEING AT TDC.



Modified by ef9civicgen4 at 4:25 PM 8/20/2007

bks84

iTrader: (9)

Good luck joel.

OLD_HATCH

faulty msd???

since thats the only electronic part yoju changed and deals with your timing could be good to start there. maybe loose wiring etc???

dbiker207

did you deck the head or the block? it sounds like the cam timing is off because the cams are closer to the crank. try getting some cam gears to adjust everything back to tdc, this should bring your ignition timing back to where it is supposed to be.

LastGenEK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dbiker207 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you deck the head or the block? it sounds like the cam timing is off because the cams are closer to the crank. try getting some cam gears to adjust everything back to tdc, this should bring your ignition timing back to where it is supposed to be.</TD></TR></TABLE>

EG civic

Yeah you need to make sure that everything is TDC, the cam timing is probably off somewhat. That is why you have to set the dizzy completely advanced. Always make sure that the timing that is in the s300 is 16 degrees and that the dizzy is actually at 16 degrees too.

22psicrx

maybe vtec not working. I dynoed a car and it made 250whp, dynoed the vtec cam and it made 350whp

bks84

iTrader: (9)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 22psicrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe vtec not working. I dynoed a car and it made 250whp, dynoed the vtec cam and it made 350whp </TD></TR></TABLE>

No it works... you can see it on the dynograph... as well as hear it.

I suggested to him that he might wanna check into cam gears... anyone have any for sale...

Jay_Sensing

When I installed the nitrous on my car, I ran into a "similar" problem. The car slowed down a half a second in the 1/4 all motor. The only thing really changed was the MSD and that turned out to be the problem. It wasn't a faulty installation, it's just by default the box retards timing. We had to reset the base timing and them retune the car on the dyno advancing the timing on the map about 4 degrees across the board to get it back to where it was before.

ef9civicgen4

im kinda iffy on the msd being the problem. the shop i go to had purchesed many msd dizzy's and had many fail. now they are to the point that anytime they buy one, it is personally rebuilt by their sales rep. so mine has new seals, lock tite, and whatever else they do. also, it came off a running car, that didnt have any issues with timing.

the block was "step decked" by golden eagle, but it shouldnt have been anything drastic. i guess that couldve messed with timing a little. but, none of the other sleeved block cars locally have had an issue like this?

i guess ill try going back to the stock ignition, and see what that does.

anyone else have any ideas?

93CX

Absolutly the MSD.. only component in your setup that sucks.

RTW DC2R

as soon as I saw you had the MSD, and then you said the timing was all screwed up, I instantly thought it would be the MSD. Some people have good luck with them, others dont. the stock ignition works fine for that power level so I would go back to stock and see how that works.

did you check your compression/leakdown yet?

bks84

iTrader: (9)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as soon as I saw you had the MSD, and then you said the timing was all screwed up, I instantly thought it would be the MSD. Some people have good luck with them, others dont. the stock ignition works fine for that power level so I would go back to stock and see how that works.

did you check your compression/leakdown yet? </TD></TR></TABLE>

With the stock ignition it would break up past 7k rpms, this is why he got the MSD...

I hope he gets it all worked out.

ef9civicgen4

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toda B’s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

With the stock ignition it would break up past 7k rpms, this is why he got the MSD...

I hope he gets it all worked out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

the reason it was breaking up it because the plugs were f'd. with new plugs, stock ingintion seemed to run fine. with the msd, the car still seemed to be running fine, but the dyno tells another story.

ef9civicgen4

bumpity. any new ideas?

im gonna try a set of itr cams and gears this friday if i dont resolve this issue any other way.

XSIintegra

I've seen a number of either pulleys and Crank timing gears be off from each other...usually due to a bad Key. A had a Suzuki Samurai actually warp a key so bad it was off a good 15-20 degrees on the Timing Gear.
Check it out and always time TDC from the timing gear and not the plastic cover and pulley

If your going to get some new cams...swap out those seals. They don't look good at all.

bks84

iTrader: (9)

The seals were just dirty in those pictures. The pictures are of the ITR's after installation.

He's getting cam gears as its been determined timing is off about 4 degrees, retarded.

I'll make sure he gets new cam gear and crank gear pulley keys. 90741-657-000 & 90704-634-000

XSIintegra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ef9civicgen4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im gonna try a set of itr cams and gears this friday if i dont resolve this issue any other way.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lt. Spoon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The seals were just dirty in those pictures. The pictures are of the ITR's after installation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Err...?


I hope the keys work out for ya...Either way, they're cheap to replace.

ef9civicgen4

ill replace the seals when i do the gears, and also check the keys.

i honestly think GE decked the block too much, cuz i never had a problem with timing until i got the new block.

Blind-Fashion

Thats what normally happens, get cam gears and put in a couple degrees

bks84

iTrader: (9)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blind-Fashion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats what normally happens, get cam gears and put in a couple degrees</TD></TR></TABLE>

couple... 4 degress....

sucks so bad... car was reportedly strong before GE sent the block back....

JaredKaragen

soundke cam or ignition timing.

that low compression is gonna play with your ignition maps!

bks84

iTrader: (9)

it was the same before he sent the block for sleeving.