Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

I'm going high compression with LOW BOOST. It will be a rebuilt B16a1 with CTR cams (11.1 cr) and tuned with hondata PR3 stage 2 with boost option & GT28. It will be tuned to run factory A/F ratio for mainly reliablity and daily driveing(NOT a DRAG CAR)

**MY question is this:
"what is a safe level of boost i should go with" I have access to 93 octane up here in Minnesota.

baphomet

hmm...factory a/f ratio on a non factory boosted car - good luck

I love when I hear this one.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

thanks for being a smart ***. i dont mind if you flame me but trying to others look incompident is not cool. BTW come fall well see who has a faster car!(gerk!)
*having it run LIKE factory air/fuel ratio.. i was emplying that i would have my B16 tuned to run richer like say in the 12 range.
*also i know that i asked a really browd and undetailed question but taking the fact that it will be a b16 11:1cr tuned with hondata how much boost is safe and approprate? I know that TUNNING IS THE KEY


I'm not an expert on turbo but do know what is involves and the charaterictics that make it function. Please help me out and give me your opinion.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

BTW lets not start a shoutting war bro. Just keep the smart *** compent to youself. Post agian if your want to input some useful information that is relivent to my orginal post. If you want to argue than feel free to IM me

b18cTurbo

even ctr piston on n/a whit pump gaz(91 oct) is hard to tune so just imagine when you boost it!!
good luck

ekb18c

Not every motor is create equally so the only way to find out is to goto the dyno and start tunning. Start off with 5 psi and then if you see that you have enough room then go more and more. Make sure you have a really good tuner who is doing it for you. If you have the right amt of fuel going into it you should be fine. What size injectors do you have? And also what fuel pump are you runnig? I'm assuming you have some sort of standalone system right?

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

this is my plan
Rebuilt B16a1
CTR pistons @ 11:1cr
Stock block
ITR cams
ITR valves
ITR springs and retainers
Portflow head
ITR inake manifold with extrude hone/port matched
ITR tb
walbro 255 intake pump
toda cam gears
JDM 4-1 header
msd ignition
hondata tuned by Jeff @ IB
fully balanced rotation assembly
looking to make about 165-175whp & 120tq
**with turbo:
-GT28 ball bearing turbo
-Greddy manifold
-greddy head gasket ? maybe........ how much will it lower my cr?
-greddy civic type 31 FMIC
-BOV -undecided
-rc 440cc or new DMS 450cc injectors
-HONDATA with boost option PR3 ecu
-misceanoulse stuff.

so what do you all think? should i be okay?
I'm only looking to boost about 6-8psi..maybe 10psi...if it is possible with tuning the PR3 obd0...since its much harder with being obd0.

94dxt

lower your compression and give it real boost=way more power and torque

Onefastteg

i see what you are saying about the boost on high compression i did a b16a1 swap on my integra and now am going to boost it to the tune of 10 pound my fuel managment is smc+ and dsm 450's t3 turbo custom manifold greddy universal intercooler piping and huge front mount can't wait to run open downpipe you should be fin but i don't know about all that overlap on the itr cams but i guess you are going to dial it out with the cam gears good luck and make sure u get it tuned right

PM-Performance

im running 8psi daily on my itr 10.6:1 with pump gas, te kept the timing pretty conservative, but still made pretty damn good numbers outta it .
it can be done , but be careful with the timing . you will lvoe the comprression and boost, even out of boost it responds awesome

ekb18c

you should be okay at 7psi. Just get a good tuner.

PM-Performance

yea good tuner is the most crucial part fo that set up

.RTErnie

JDM 4-1 header and a Greddy Manifold?

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

if you read carefully I'm doing this as a tow part setup!
I'll be haveing a rebuilt B16 for IB so i just want to run that for a while until i get tired of the power and until i have more miles on it. Then when I'm ready I'll throw on the boost!

but it would be nice if i could do it all at once though.. to bad i'm not made of money

.RTErnie

yeah thats true...but turbo=lots of money

paulzy

iTrader: (1)

Charlie...I'm not trying to knock you, but here are some problems I see with your setup....

1. having IB tuning it is useless. Isaac can tune it for the same way Jeff can. THe reason is, when you do happen to change something, Jeff(IB) is located like 1500 miles away. Isaac(Elite) is about 15 miles away. Having Jeff tune it first, then changing the whole setup and letting someone else tune it is not the way to go. I like having the peace of mind that only 1 person has tuned my car and tuned it teh way I like it. Having someone local do this is far easier to achieve.

2.As for running CTR pistons...you are still gonna have the downfall of cast pistons along with trying to deal with high compression and boost. WHy not just fork out like $300 for a set of SRP forged pistons(which are probably the same price as CTR pistons)and having a choice of many static compressions. If you're gonna open up the shortblock, might as well do it right(kinda). The SRP's are made with a higher silicone content, so piston slap is kept to a minimum....THey are great for street/strip and mild boosted applications

3. As far as compression goes. I'd go with a lower compression. Something like a 9.5:1 jsut to be safe. Power can always be compensated for later by adding more boost. And I see 9.5:1 as still a great number even without boost.

Take what I said into consideration....YOu dont wanna run into headaches later.


[Modified by Paul_Vang, 6:42 PM 3/17/2003]

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

thanks paul!

well why is having IB build my motor usless? I don't know Issac and don't know what he can do. I don't know anyone that can vouch for him and his skills. Honestly i'm investing well over 9.5k into my motor(that is if i don't get a new car) I turst jeff and have confidence in what he does. This is a big project and i plan on sticking to only 1 shop to work on it. So what if were are located 1500 miles away. If this dosen't mean that he still can fix and tune my car right. yes it will be expensive but oh well... having pice of mind in the quality of a motor is priceless even if i have to go the extra miles. So far i don't know Issac personally except that is hands shake a lot. If you want to know what my plans are them IM and i'll fill you in. If not then just wait to see what i have coming.
BTW did i mention anything about making ONLY 1 trip down there? I'm going down there agian WHEN i have enough money for my turbo setup! if you wanna know why i'm makeing it a two part project than IM me. You may know Issac and the crew at Elite but i don't. if you have confidence in them and their work than that's you. Have fun tuning your H22, B18, lstev, D16, B20 or anyother setup that you may decide to go with.

what are the downfalls of low boost and stock pistons? Please tell me.
Yes i know that they are not as strong as FORGED pistons but how much can 5.5-8psi do to my pistons in the long run? You know how i treat my car and drive, it's not like I drive like david/lao... i pamper my investments and don't abuse it unless need be. MONEY is not an factor when having someone build my motor. Seeing that i'm spending about 10k or it 300 more is not going to affect me. I'm guessing that you'll probably educate me about rods too.... saying that I "should" get some Eagle or crower rods. Well if i need them to achive me goals then I'll get them.

do you have any personal expericence with the SPR high silicone pistons?

Also another point I'd like to be different to a certin point. I could do what many people have done....(swap B16a,B18a/b slap on a DRAG3 kit, acf hack .... make 270hp at 11psi and call it a day) but thats not my stlye. BTW i'm not trying to break any hp record or 1/4 times. Im just trying to build my dream EF car. I don't care if I spend 10k and get a 12sec car. Where as other people could spend 3k and achive the same..... honetly.. I look into other quality too.


in all honesty I WILL take into condiceration to what you and other members say because i don't know everyting and i do want others opinions. Thanks agian paul.

paulzy

iTrader: (1)

what I'm trying to say is that Driving down to Cali every time you turn up the boost is not worth it....

As for SRP's, I've had no experience with them, but I've used JE's and SRP are made by JE and have had great luck with them....

See, the thing here is that you can't make up your mind either...

First you say that you are not made of money, but then you turn around and say you're gonna spend $10k for this buildup...$10k is a lot of money...What I'm saying is that I built my motor for under $3500 including everything.

As for Isaac. Do you remember Brent Rau? I wonder who tuned that car?

Elite does great work, no doubt about it. If you're on a budget, get some aftermarket pistons and slap them on your stock rods...

There are competent machine shops around the Twin Cities area that I can refer to you. THey have done work in the past for me and I think highly of them.

The thing I dont undestand is the fact that you're about to spend $10k and end up with OEM parts

MiraiZ

My personal opinion...

people are gonna argue for and against high compression, but I think its safe to say that stock pistons are your weak point! You should at least get forged pistons and rods for that kind of setup!


[Modified by MiraiZ, 4:12 PM 3/18/2003]

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

Thanks agian guys...
anyone else?

QCKGSR

I was gonna do the same set up , with a gsr with portflow head and ctr pistons, and try to run low boost levels... my problem is this i had a hell of a time getting the ctr pistons to stop detonating on pump gas i had to run my ignition at zero up until around 5000rpms. i have a pr3 also with stage 2, when i wanted to go boost i spoke with a Dan over at dpr and he brought up a good point.. the dome on the ctr piston is so tall that i will tend to mes up the flame travel across the piston.. the dome will make the air in the combustion really turbulent and not good for power and will play hell on you trying to tune it... also the ctrs have a tendency to have hot spots ... if you didnt want to spend the money on the srp pistons you could put in a .083 head gasket and that will lower considerably.. but the problem with that is you are movimg the chamber away from the action making the chamber less efficient.. my advice would be to spend th3 350 on some srp's and save yourself alot of headaches... you will be tahnkfull later on, when your on the dyno and things are progressing and the guy is not telling you you need race gas or need something else to make th epower you want!!!! just my .02

boosted hybrid

High compression you NEED to run forged pistons/rods. Dont waste your time with cast, especially if you are building your engine from the start. Spend a little more money and have ALOT stronger of an engine.

As far as getting your car tuned at IB, its pretty ridiculous. Paul is saying that you have a local guy that can tune your car, just go with him. Why would you want to go to extreme lengths to get your car tuned? High compression is not that hard to tune, just have to be a little more precautionary. Its going to take the same amount of time to tune as a low compression set-up, and therefore any decent tuner can handle a high compression FI set-up. I'd go with the local guy.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

well i dont know if iassac doese tune hondata pr3 ecu with boost... seeing that i doubt he's ever done it. jeff told me that other are capale of tuning non obd1 motor with boost, just not as comfterbal and confident as he is about his tuning.

I'll give issac a call and see what he can do. My other optoin was going to Pyne Tech but they charge to much.

paulzy

iTrader: (1)

ELite installs and tunes Hondata....they are a certified dealer...

They tuned Kong's(marlboro man civic) b20/vtec to 395whp on 14lbs...that was with a original stage4b


[Modified by Paul_Vang, 11:46 AM 3/18/2003]

baphomet

You probably know more about turbos than I, sorry about my post, everyone has a bad day
Good luck with your car - it defenetly looks like its faster than mine.