Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I know there have been hundreds of head stud threads but this one is different. Im looking for specific cases where the studs have loosened up.

Ive used ARP head studs for all my motors and Ive always had a problem with the studs becoming loose. I know a few of you have had this same problem too. ARP instructs you to finger tighten the studs in the block. This has always led to my problems. Finger tight is not tight enough nor will it be consistent across all 10 studs.

I resolved this by torquing the studs in the block to 10ft/lbs. ARP says this is bad as the studs bottoms out and can get off center causing an unequal clamping force on the head. That explanation sounds logical but I haven't had anymore problems with this method.

Every other ARP competitor (AEBS, GE etc) has head studs with a dimple, taper or dog nose (whatever you want to call it) on the bottom of the stud to prevent it from bottoming out. Some of you have switched brands to prevent this from happening. Some even drop a ball bearing in the holes to prevent the ARP stud from bottoming out.

So if you've had to re-torque your ARP head studs or if the studs have loosened up on you, speak up and post your experience. Ive contacted ARP and they want to research this. This thread will be sent to them. All their domestic head studs are dimpled for aluminum blocks to prevent this, ours should be too!

Doodoo

I have made the switch to AEBS because I had the same problem with loose studs and inconsistent set heights between the 10 studs.

My worst experience was with my LS. I followed the fingertight instructions and torque specs. Long story short the head was leaking coolant from a corner. That corner ended up having the stud loose snough for me to unscrew it by hand. This was not the first time I have did headwork so I was not new to the procedures.

After this experience I torqued the studs to about 10ft/lb and it worked out good.

After seeing the new studs from AEBS and GE with the dimples I was sold on them. Plus they have a hex wrench socket to help cinch the studs down, sweet.

turboteener

Coat the stud with red loctite and thread in hand tight. It will not loosen. You will have to use a torch to take them out but they will not loosen.

Ryan15

well I ended up going aebs head studs because of the taper at the end, if arp had it i would have chosen them.
Ryan

vaporboy12

i had a big problem with the arp's doing this lost a few head gaskets becasue of this switch to the golden eagle ones and didnt have a problem with those at all

DaveF

i have used both ARP & GE head studs with good and bad results. the good, they hold/do their job... (multiple times)

the bad.. when you dont tighten them a bit more than "hand tight" into the block, when you start torqing them down, it will actuall start unthreading the stud from the block, which leaves less thread to "clamp on", which ultimately leads to the stud ripping the threads from the block.

i like to make sure the studs are "snug" but definitly not tight in the block, before i go cranking the nuts on...

the GE studs with the allen head in the top make life much easier when installing/removing the studs.

i have never tried the bearing trick or anything of that sort, so i cant comment there.

non-VTEC

i too had issues with my ARP studs.

like you said hand tight is not enough. they backed off after about an hour of run time and blew the headgasket

from now on i give them about 8-10ft/lbs of torque into the block. never had an issue since.

i really like the GE studs with the ends on them. they bottom right out so you can tighten them down. if i decide to build up another engine i would probably give them a try.

earl

The only times I have seen studs come loose (any brand) is when there are problems with the threads in the block. We use 5 lbs of torque and moly lube to set the studs in the block. If you use loctite, I would be worried about tearing the threads out of the block in case you need to remove the studs.
I personally like the ARP's because they are in that business. AEBS and GE are not large producers of fasteners. I'm not saying they are not as good as ARP, it is just a personal preference. We all trust the ARP2000 bolts for our rods, so why not trust their studs to be good?

beaver

I just dont see how you guys have had that many problems with headstuds loosening up. Something had to be done wrong, i have never had a problem with them loosening and causing other problems like blowing headgaskets. Just sounds like something else causing these problems.

Civicman86

I have never had a problem with my ARP studs.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Im seeing a trend here. Seems nobody "finger tightens" the ARP studs. Most everyone here likes to torque them into the block. The problem is ARP says NOT to do this because it will cause the studs to bottom out and get off center. If ARP simply revised their design to include a taper on the end, like they already have done on ALL of their domestic aluminum block head stud applications, then you could safely torque them in the block.

DaveF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im seeing a trend here. Seems nobody "finger tightens" the ARP studs. Most everyone here likes to torque them into the block. The problem is ARP says NOT to do this because it will cause the studs to bottom out and get off center. If ARP simply revised their design to include a taper on the end, like they already have done on ALL of their domestic aluminum block head stud applications, then you could safely torque them in the block.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont do that simply because they are not all even whe that are "only" finger tight. i like to even them out, then maybe give em another 1/4 turn or so, till they are snug. i dont torque them into the block.

01geeser

interesting....bump for more info...im about to put my arps on my block.

ccivic

snugged mine down with an allen key.

doublej

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im seeing a trend here. Seems nobody "finger tightens" the ARP studs. Most everyone here likes to torque them into the block. The problem is ARP says NOT to do this because it will cause the studs to bottom out and get off center. </TD></TR></TABLE>

beaver

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im seeing a trend here. Seems nobody "finger tightens" the ARP studs. Most everyone here likes to torque them into the block. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Every engine builder i know simply finger tightens the studs, never have i nor anyone i have watched build a honda motor torqued the studs into the blocks. None of the motors ive seen put together using the finger tightening method including my own have backed out or blown headgaskets.

I think the guys having problems are blowing the headgaskets and in turn making the studs loose, making it seem that is what caused the problem.

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If ARP simply revised their design to include a taper on the end, like they already have done on ALL of their domestic aluminum block head stud applications, then you could safely torque them in the block.</TD></TR></TABLE>Are you sure they have made that change to all the domestic aluminum block studs? How many domestic aluminum blocks are there? When I talked to the ARP engineers in the past, they stated there was never really a need for yhe ball/tapered end. Maybe things have changed since then, not sure?

beaver

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you sure they have made that change to all the domestic aluminum block studs? How many domestic aluminum blocks are there? When I talked to the ARP engineers in the past, they stated there was never really a need for yhe ball/tapered end. Maybe things have changed since then, not sure?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have spoke with ARP as well and they told me the same thing, that it is not needed.

abnaasefmb

here is a pic of the arp's i got a while back. they have the allen head and a slight tapper.

Blackack26

I found that if the threads in the block are not perfect, the studs will not go all the way in just by hand tightening. You could run a tap through each hole which will fix this problem. I do this then snug the studs down with an allen key. No problems..

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blackack26 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I found that if the threads in the block are not perfect, the studs will not go all the way in just by hand tightening. You could run a tap through each hole which will fix this problem. I do this then snug the studs down with an allen key. No problems.. </TD></TR></TABLE>NO, never run a tap down those threads as it removes material and strength. Only use a thread chaser as they don't remove any aluminum.

VtecCarHauler

i haven't had any problems and I am glad because I usually have all the problems.

abnaasefmb

what about the main studs? would you say tq them down a little as well?

y7turbo

i always put the head studs to 10ft/lbs and i have never had them back out.

Archidictus

I've done lots of ARP installs on Hondas and I've never had any back out. I use the proper-sized key and spin them all the way to the bottom with the provided Moly lube. I end up putting 5 pounds or so to them before dropping the head and gasket back over top and I've never had any problems.