Vince64

Just wondering if anyone here has used WI and what kind of results did you see.

I have been researching this form of chemical intercooling for awhile and I havent seen anything but positive results.

There are quite a few different types of setups out there and enough failsafes to make them pretty reliable nowadays.

boostedcivicsir

you are adding another variable. another part to fail.
remember you have to tune with it and run with all the time to benefit from it. if you are on the ragged edge and dont have it, you go boom.

i.m.o. it isnt worth what it takes to do it right.

Vince64

i know it could fail but quite a few companies offer devices that drop the boost down to a lower setting if the injection fails to activate.

So what does it take to do it right in your opinion?

Boostedb20EH2

My cousin had this set up on his integra, would start once he hit boost. It was a pretty bad *** set up

boostedcivicsir

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vince64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So what does it take to do it right in your opinion?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

a good ems, enough injector, and intercooler to support your power goal.

nowtype

Dude, there is nothing wrong with running water/alky/meth. I'd suggest running E85 instead as it basically does the same thing without the extra parts but if I had to chose between running high hp on just pump gas or pump gas and water/alky/meth, I'd chose the later. Just make sure you buy a good kit from a reliable company and you shouldn't have much to worry about. If I were interested in building a street monster I would definitely install water/alky/meth.

Vince64

Well E85 isnt readily available everywhere here and we have crap 91

And i have been thinking i want to get rid of an intercooler altogether with a progressive 50/50 water/meth and injection before and after the turbo.

Sounds crazy huh, but my goals are to push my turbo to its upper limits and provide a insanely responsive setup for the street.

Boostedb20EH2

http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=6

Thats the kit my cousin was using.
Water/meth is the way to go. I'm thinking about doing it.

Bailhatch

pump gas + water/meth

quicksilver1689

ive been thinking about a progressive devils own meth/water kit for this turbo d16. Looks like a good solution, that coupled with a 1/2 or 1 gallon resevoir would be good enough to go for weeks without refilling, i would also get the warning sensor for low fluid levels to prevent my motor from going suicidal

Boostedb20EH2

If you just DD it and arent stupid about it, I bet the water/meth would last you a long time without refilling,

SovXietday

If you do anything, do meth. Water injection is just a bandaid for a poor setup in the first place.

I personally am not a fan though. No reason you can't make too much power for street on 91 pump gas in a honda. On the track put in 110+ octane and go have some real fun.

IMO, meth/alky is for AWD/RWD street cars only.

Vince64

straight meth doesn't have the same cooling properties as meth+water though.

why would it be for awd/rwd cars only, this makes no sense to me

nowtype

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vince64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">straight meth doesn't have the same cooling properties as meth+water though.

why would it be for awd/rwd cars only, this makes no sense to me</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because he is an idiot...

Anyway, I believe a lot of people suggest windsheild washer fluid. It's cheap and works well supposedly.

carzntune

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyway, I believe a lot of people suggest windsheild washer fluid. It's cheap and works well supposedly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Walmart SuperTech -25 is 38% methanol and the SuperTech -20 is 30% methanol. At roughly $2 a gallon, it's a cheap insurance policy. I only say the Walmart brand because the stores are everywhere and open 24hours so it's a great place to source a consistent mix.

What to run has been on my mind for a few weeks. I'll refer to the AEM system because that's what is being installed in my car. It allows up to a 50% alcohol mix. I don't know what the pros and cons are in regards to the mix ratios but I'd like to find out. The only way to get a 50/50 is to purchase premixes (expensive!!) or make it yourself. It's by far cheaper and convenient to purchase washer fluid in the store (for me) than to buy the methanol from a fuel distributor. My local distributor charges $325 for a 55 gallon drum. Luckily, I work for an R&D facility that has an substantial supply of deionized and distilled water. If you don't have such a source, there's another cost when making the mix because you shouldn't use tap water. All that being said, if finding out that Supertech -25 works just as well as a homemade 50/50 mix then you are golden IMO. I suppose it comes down to how you intend to use the system. Simply as a safety buffer or use it as a power adder via timing, etc. Does anyone know if such a comparison of mixes has been done?

All I know is my new layout should be pushing over 450whp on 93 pump and the alcohol injection is mainly there to give me some safety against a bad tank of gas and probably hot days. It would be nice to find the best as well as best possible price of a mix.

Bailhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you do anything, do meth. Water injection is just a bandaid for a poor setup in the first place.

I personally am not a fan though. No reason you can't make too much power for street on 91 pump gas in a honda. On the track put in 110+ octane and go have some real fun.

IMO, meth/alky is for AWD/RWD street cars only. </TD></TR></TABLE>

b16sedan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vince64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well E85 isnt readily available everywhere here and we have crap 91

And i have been thinking i want to get rid of an intercooler altogether with a progressive 50/50 water/meth and injection before and after the turbo.

Sounds crazy huh, but my goals are to push my turbo to its upper limits and provide a insanely responsive setup for the street.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Spraying meth into the compressor wheel isn't a good idea. There's kits like this for domestic cars, and having the meth blasting into the turbo actually slows down spool by a bit. You aren't loosing much response AT ALL by having an intercooler so I wouldn't do it.

I'm running an AlkyControl progressive kit on my EG and I love it. Motor is built/sleeved with a headgames head and the biggest zex cam, sheetmetal intake and it's 9.8:1 compression. Running an SC61 and a PTE 600HP intercooler for the turbo setup, meth starts spraying at 10 psi and hits 100% spray at 19 psi. Haven't had it on the dyno, but it doesn't knock at all maxing out my 3-bar map sensor on 91 octane, and it pulls HARD on my buddies GSXR-750.

Would I run meth on my B16? Probably not, because it makes 450 WHP on straight pump gas and is enough for a FWD car on the street. When I need more power I'm at the track on race gas, or if i'm messing around on the street and want more power it's not a big deal to dump in a couple gallons of C16 and have as much power as I need for that night. But for a D-series where ~300 WHP felt not so fast on pump gas I'm all for it.

Vince64

Well its sounds like its worth a try. Besides this is only one of the setups i want to try. Dyno tuning is very accessible to me and i plan to test out pre and post turbo injection with a few different intercoolers.

Do you use any failsafes on that AlkyControl progressive kit? What are your IAT's at?

D series torque FTW

1llmatic

I've got the Snow Performance kit on my car. Works well.
Snow came out recently with accessories for the kit as well but I just have the basic kit.

I know AEM just came out with one recently with a fluid gauge for the cabin but i haven't heard of any feedback on it. AEM kit comes with a bigger bottle for fluid as well.

SovXietday

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Because he is an idiot...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lol.

Build a good setup and you have no reason to use water/meth to make power. Anything over 350whp in a Honda is damn near useless on the street, and I've seen plenty of people making 400s on pump gas. Why would you use meth/water/alky when you can make the power with the right setup and a completely controllable fueling system.

Meth/alky = one more thing that can break/fail, and cost you a lot of money. So why would you put it on there when you can make enough power to break tire all the way through 4th gear on just pump gas. God forbid you have E85 available.

Meth/alky/water injection works great for the AWD/RWD guys because with a good setup + alky they can make stupid power and STILL PUT IT TO THE GROUND.

If you think you can put 450+ on the ground in your Honda, go ahead and use the alchy/water injection and then tell us your secret because I sure as expletive would like to know.

It's an opinion, but if you think I'm dumb enough to think water/alchy injection is useless than on you. It, like everything else, has its place. I just don't think you need it on a Honda.

quicksilver1689

yeah you have some good points sovxiet, yes alot of people have made over 400whp on pump gas, on a d-series? hell no, b-series, done on the daily. D-series are you very well know have a pretty low detonation threshold specially with pump gas, 320-350whp is the most id ever push a pump gas d-series build IMO

Boostedb20EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Lol.

Build a good setup and you have no reason to use water/meth to make power. Anything over 350whp in a Honda is damn near useless on the street, and I've seen plenty of people making 400s on pump gas. Why would you use meth/water/alky when you can make the power with the right setup and a completely controllable fueling system.

Meth/alky = one more thing that can break/fail, and cost you a lot of money. So why would you put it on there when you can make enough power to break tire all the way through 4th gear on just pump gas. God forbid you have E85 available.

Meth/alky/water injection works great for the AWD/RWD guys because with a good setup + alky they can make stupid power and STILL PUT IT TO THE GROUND.

If you think you can put 450+ on the ground in your Honda, go ahead and use the alchy/water injection and then tell us your secret because I sure as expletive would like to know.

It's an opinion, but if you think I'm dumb enough to think water/alchy injection is useless than on you. It, like everything else, has its place. I just don't think you need it on a Honda.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uhmmm...Slicks?
By the way who ever said he was going to be trying to put the power down on the street? Maybe he wants something fun he can daily, then put on a set of slicks on and take to the track on weekends.
Not everyone on here streetraces and enjoys putting innocent people's lives on the line like you.

0xenocron

Straight Meth isnt that safe though...you have to be careful.

Meth burns flamless and odorless...you catch something on fire playing with Straight Meth...you dont know what hits you...and the flash point is fairly low (i forget exactly)...which isnt ideal in a street car IMO.

Water/Meth is great for those pushing the ragged edge on pump...and there are a lot of people on that line these days.

I tuned my personal LSVTEC to 290 whp at 9psi...through on a Stage 2 Kit with the 225 nozzle and lost only 2 hp without any additional tuning. Great safety measure for the price and ease of use.

Certainly you can run leaner and add more timing to reap the power effects of running Water/Meth, but then yes you are still "on the edge" and you have to worry about that part failing...but come on, how many moving parts are in these setups we are putting together. Whats one more?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you do anything, do meth. Water injection is just a bandaid for a poor setup in the first place.

I personally am not a fan though. No reason you can't make too much power for street on 91 pump gas in a honda. On the track put in 110+ octane and go have some real fun.

IMO, meth/alky is for AWD/RWD street cars only. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Bailhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Meth burns flamless and odorless...you catch something on fire playing with Straight Meth...you dont know what hits you...and the flash point is fairly low (i forget exactly)...which isnt ideal in a street car IMO.

but come on, how many moving parts are in these setups we are putting together. Whats one more?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

its like 60F or something, I have only tuned one car with straight meth. sketchy stuff to have around the shop. I put the drum outside.

Thats the thing, they are very reliable. The pump is a very well tested industrial design that lasts a long time. I hear of more engines breaking than I do surflow pumps on the same cars. The rest of the system is only as reliable as the installer...like anything else.

SovXietday

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostedb20EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Not everyone on here streetraces and enjoys putting innocent people's lives on the line like you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're a moron. I drive a bone stock LS1 Camaro every day. If the Civic goes out on the street it's at low boost ~250whp. To which then I will ask you this question... why do you need to make 350whp+ with alchy injection on the street? Oh wait, you don't, because according to you that means you streetrace.

IDK why you would run on a meth/alchy/bandaid setup at the track when you can just stick a few gallons of race gas in and make more power anyway. This is also where you have slicks, you don't do slicks on the street.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Straight Meth isnt that safe though...you have to be careful.

Meth burns flamless and odorless...you catch something on fire playing with Straight Meth...you dont know what hits you...and the flash point is fairly low (i forget exactly)...which isnt ideal in a street car IMO.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're right, my bad. I was more referring to staying away from straight water, just didn't word it the way I wanted to.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I tuned my personal LSVTEC to 290 whp at 9psi...through on a Stage 2 Kit with the 225 nozzle and lost only 2 hp without any additional tuning. Great safety measure for the price and ease of use.

Certainly you can run leaner and add more timing to reap the power effects of running Water/Meth, but then yes you are still "on the edge" and you have to worry about that part failing...but come on, how many moving parts are in these setups we are putting together. Whats one more?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could argue more but moving parts as far as a turbo setup goes is the turbo and the wastegate. That's two, everything else is the same as a stock vehicle. Using it as a safety feature I have no problems with, it's actually a good idea. My problem is relying on it to make more power when there are much better and more effective ways to go about it. Obviously it can all be argued, it's just the way I see it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thats the thing, they are very reliable. The pump is a very well tested industrial design that lasts a long time. I hear of more engines breaking than I do surflow pumps on the same cars. The rest of the system is only as reliable as the installer...like anything else.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a friend with a turbo GN, he LIVES on that stuff. PT76 with some crazy shot of alchy. Well, one day he took it to the track and the pump failed and he almost lost it all. Have another friend who lost an engine because he didn't know what the pinging sound was. It's just like a fuel pump, the question is not will it fail, it's when will it fail. The difference is you just run a wideband to find out when a fuel pump is going, an alchy injection is a little tougher.

I am not really arguing against it, I just don't think it's as applicable to Honda's as it is to other types of vehicles.