Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer?
02-03-2004, 04:02 PM
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Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer?
From what i understand 5w30 has more polymers than say 10w30.. if so, you want to have the shortest span between 5 and 30, so if your temps are above 20F during summer, you should be fine to run 10w30.. 20w weights start at 40 degress, so i'm thinking i should be safe during summer where temps should not drop below 70's.
This webpage has some good information: http://www.repairfaq.org/filip...S_003
"Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.
Very few manufactures recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 uses no viscosity improvers in their 5W-30, and I assume the new 10W-30. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle."
This webpage has some good information: http://www.repairfaq.org/filip...S_003
"Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.
Very few manufactures recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 uses no viscosity improvers in their 5W-30, and I assume the new 10W-30. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle."
02-03-2004, 04:45 PM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (vtec.dc2)
great info 
i knew what the numbers meant however i never knew that the large range was bad. thanks for sharing
i knew what the numbers meant however i never knew that the large range was bad. thanks for sharing
02-04-2004, 07:13 AM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (vtec.dc2)
ttt.. i know people run oil their cars.. and some run diferent oil during summer.
i'm running 5w30 right now for the winter.. but want to try 15w40 or 20w40 if theres such thing.
i'm running 5w30 right now for the winter.. but want to try 15w40 or 20w40 if theres such thing.
02-04-2004, 08:36 AM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (vtec.dc2)
I run 15w50 mobil 1 in the summer. I had it in for the first oil change in the winter, and when I noticed it poured like honey when I went to add a little bit, I went home and switched to 10w30 for the winter. It works well.
Good luck!
Good luck!
02-04-2004, 07:19 PM
#6
Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (vtec.dc2)
What are the benefits of running a heavier weight oil? For example, a 15w50 rather than a 5w30? I understand the added protection from a heavier weight oil, but from a performance aspect, wouldnt you want the thinnest oil that will still do the trick in terms of lubrication?
02-04-2004, 07:44 PM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (newgsrdriver)
from what i know so it will withstand more heat.. higher flash point, as it loses is visconsity, it probably won't be 5w30 by the end of oil change. that and the number between 5 and 30 is best to be in shortest range.. possibly it won't burn as much too becuase it won't break through seals as easily.
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02-04-2004, 08:02 PM
#8
Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (vtec.dc2)
Thats what I mean....I understand the protection, thicker oil wont "disappear" as easily, will provide better lubrication, etc...
But is there any performance benefit to running 15w50 over 5w30, or is it all for protection purposes?
But is there any performance benefit to running 15w50 over 5w30, or is it all for protection purposes?
02-04-2004, 08:23 PM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (newgsrdriver)
hmm.. i can't really think of anything.. i think its just about protection to ensure you can have performance.
02-06-2004, 12:58 AM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (tegasaurus)
Well, it's not all white<->black.
As for oil numbers... if you don't live in really cold area, usually 10W is good choice, in more hot areas 15W even 20W will do it's job.
However, now we come to turbo charged hondas....
As you know, engine warms up oil. Turbo warms it also up (you know how turbo gets hot)... Alltogether it warms up even more under load.
Now, when oil gets hot, you don't want it to get too much viscous (drains too fast, doesnt lubricate as good, etc.) - this is where 2nd number comes in play.
For example 10W30 is good if you keep yr oil temps in some range, but if temperature can 'spike' to higher temperatures, again it becomes too thin. In that case 10W40 would be better choice.
As some said, diesel engines can be problems... true.. since they usually generate less heat than gasoline, so high greaded (10W40 or 20W50) can be too thick for them.
However, back to oils that we need
It all depends on application... but if you don't have oil cooler, I'd suggest somewhat larger 2nd number, so it works better under higher temperatures.
Oh, also nice graph: http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/rovis.pdf
You see also difference between 15W40 and 15W50.. so you get the idea
As for oil numbers... if you don't live in really cold area, usually 10W is good choice, in more hot areas 15W even 20W will do it's job.
However, now we come to turbo charged hondas....
As you know, engine warms up oil. Turbo warms it also up (you know how turbo gets hot)... Alltogether it warms up even more under load.
Now, when oil gets hot, you don't want it to get too much viscous (drains too fast, doesnt lubricate as good, etc.) - this is where 2nd number comes in play.
For example 10W30 is good if you keep yr oil temps in some range, but if temperature can 'spike' to higher temperatures, again it becomes too thin. In that case 10W40 would be better choice.
As some said, diesel engines can be problems... true.. since they usually generate less heat than gasoline, so high greaded (10W40 or 20W50) can be too thick for them.
However, back to oils that we need
It all depends on application... but if you don't have oil cooler, I'd suggest somewhat larger 2nd number, so it works better under higher temperatures.
Oh, also nice graph: http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/rovis.pdf
You see also difference between 15W40 and 15W50.. so you get the idea
02-06-2004, 05:50 AM
#14
Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats what I mean....I understand the protection, thicker oil wont "disappear" as easily, will provide better lubrication, etc...
But is there any performance benefit to running 15w50 over 5w30, or is it all for protection purposes?</TD></TR></TABLE>
it protects better and all, but if you pay close attention, you'll notice that you'll be spooling slower than you did with 5w-30 or 10w-30. i did the change over this summer and i noticed at least a 500rpm slower spool time. also, do not use 15w-50 in the winter time. i was using this oil through fall and during winter, my car would bog like a bat out of hell...i couldn't figure what it was until i changed my oil over to 5w-10 for winter and the bogging went away.
But is there any performance benefit to running 15w50 over 5w30, or is it all for protection purposes?</TD></TR></TABLE>
it protects better and all, but if you pay close attention, you'll notice that you'll be spooling slower than you did with 5w-30 or 10w-30. i did the change over this summer and i noticed at least a 500rpm slower spool time. also, do not use 15w-50 in the winter time. i was using this oil through fall and during winter, my car would bog like a bat out of hell...i couldn't figure what it was until i changed my oil over to 5w-10 for winter and the bogging went away.
02-06-2004, 06:33 AM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But is there any performance benefit to running 15w50 over 5w30, or is it all for protection purposes?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Perofmance benefit? Yes... meaning if you drive hard yr engine, oil tends to heat up.. and in that case 15W50 is better, as it will lubricate better when it's hot.
On the other hand, 5w30 is good in winter, when your engine is cold and you just start it... but if you drive heavily, there will be more tear to engine than with 15w50. On the other hand with 15w50 in winter your engine will suffer on low temperatures untill wamrs up. In extreme cases, if it's really friggin cold, 15w50 might even become 'gelatinous' - and imagine how nicely will *that* lubricate engine on cold start.. right...
Even in summer, if you drive on short distances I'd say go with 5w30, but if you travel longer, faster.. 15w50.
It all depends where you live, how you drive, what you use car for.
But is there any performance benefit to running 15w50 over 5w30, or is it all for protection purposes?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Perofmance benefit? Yes... meaning if you drive hard yr engine, oil tends to heat up.. and in that case 15W50 is better, as it will lubricate better when it's hot.
On the other hand, 5w30 is good in winter, when your engine is cold and you just start it... but if you drive heavily, there will be more tear to engine than with 15w50. On the other hand with 15w50 in winter your engine will suffer on low temperatures untill wamrs up. In extreme cases, if it's really friggin cold, 15w50 might even become 'gelatinous' - and imagine how nicely will *that* lubricate engine on cold start.. right...
Even in summer, if you drive on short distances I'd say go with 5w30, but if you travel longer, faster.. 15w50.
It all depends where you live, how you drive, what you use car for.
02-06-2004, 08:22 AM
#17
Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (turbodGSR)
I think the general consensus is if the temp consistently gets under 20 degrees run 5w, as a thinner weight for cold starting has an obvious benefit.
30w we can assume is the most common, middle ground weight. If it gets hot where you live, you may want to look into a heavier weight for its higher viscosity when the oil gets hot, as it will thin out per the chart posted on redlines site.
Ideally, you would want to monitor your oil temp and see exactly how hot it gets under the most extreme driving conditions, and choose your weight based on that. It seems to me, for our east coast temperatures, 5w30 would be ideal during the winter, and 10/15w40 during the summers hottest months.
Another question...looking at that chart, what is an "unsafe" weight? Obviously we want the thinnest weight while still lubricating efficiently...where is that point? What is safe/unsafe?
Also, this is only taking weight into account. We would also have to look at chemical composition of different weights, detergents/stabilizers added at different weights, etc.
30w we can assume is the most common, middle ground weight. If it gets hot where you live, you may want to look into a heavier weight for its higher viscosity when the oil gets hot, as it will thin out per the chart posted on redlines site.
Ideally, you would want to monitor your oil temp and see exactly how hot it gets under the most extreme driving conditions, and choose your weight based on that. It seems to me, for our east coast temperatures, 5w30 would be ideal during the winter, and 10/15w40 during the summers hottest months.
Another question...looking at that chart, what is an "unsafe" weight? Obviously we want the thinnest weight while still lubricating efficiently...where is that point? What is safe/unsafe?
Also, this is only taking weight into account. We would also have to look at chemical composition of different weights, detergents/stabilizers added at different weights, etc.
02-06-2004, 11:37 AM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (newgsrdriver)
ttt.. i wish i could answer all questions.. but i'm looking for answers myself..
i'm probably going to end up running 15w40 because it has the shortest span so probably less polymers, unless i'll find 20w40.
i also noticed that the graph doesn't correpond with owners manual where 10W startts at 20F while in the graph is around 40F..
i'm probably going to end up running 15w40 because it has the shortest span so probably less polymers, unless i'll find 20w40.
i also noticed that the graph doesn't correpond with owners manual where 10W startts at 20F while in the graph is around 40F..
02-06-2004, 11:55 AM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (shermanyang)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it protects better and all, but if you pay close attention, you'll notice that you'll be spooling slower than you did with 5w-30 or 10w-30. i did the change over this summer and i noticed at least a 500rpm slower spool time. also, do not use 15w-50 in the winter time. i was using this oil through fall and during winter, my car would bog like a bat out of hell...i couldn't figure what it was until i changed my oil over to 5w-10 for winter and the bogging went away.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ha ha thats funny cuz i just went through the same exact thing this winter.
i was running 15w50 all winter and then switched to a thinner mix.... and boy what a world of difference.
about 3quarts 10w30
and 1 quart of 15w50
works damn good. On a side note i also noticed about a 2-3 psi drop in oil pressure with the thinner oil.
it protects better and all, but if you pay close attention, you'll notice that you'll be spooling slower than you did with 5w-30 or 10w-30. i did the change over this summer and i noticed at least a 500rpm slower spool time. also, do not use 15w-50 in the winter time. i was using this oil through fall and during winter, my car would bog like a bat out of hell...i couldn't figure what it was until i changed my oil over to 5w-10 for winter and the bogging went away.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ha ha thats funny cuz i just went through the same exact thing this winter.
i was running 15w50 all winter and then switched to a thinner mix.... and boy what a world of difference.
about 3quarts 10w30
and 1 quart of 15w50
works damn good. On a side note i also noticed about a 2-3 psi drop in oil pressure with the thinner oil.
02-06-2004, 11:58 AM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (newgsrdriver)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Another question...looking at that chart, what is an "unsafe" weight? Obviously we want the thinnest weight while still lubricating efficiently...where is that point? What is safe/unsafe?
Also, this is only taking weight into account. We would also have to look at chemical composition of different weights, detergents/stabilizers added at different weights, etc. </TD></TR></TABLE>
An autocross friend of mine runs 0 weight neo synthetic oil in his car... which surprised the heck out of me. Has anyone else heard of this?
Another question...looking at that chart, what is an "unsafe" weight? Obviously we want the thinnest weight while still lubricating efficiently...where is that point? What is safe/unsafe?
Also, this is only taking weight into account. We would also have to look at chemical composition of different weights, detergents/stabilizers added at different weights, etc. </TD></TR></TABLE>
An autocross friend of mine runs 0 weight neo synthetic oil in his car... which surprised the heck out of me. Has anyone else heard of this?
02-06-2004, 01:54 PM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (psileepR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by psileepR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
An autocross friend of mine runs 0 weight neo synthetic oil in his car... which surprised the heck out of me. Has anyone else heard of this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I used to use Castrol RS 0w40 before.... now using Castrol RS 10w60
An autocross friend of mine runs 0 weight neo synthetic oil in his car... which surprised the heck out of me. Has anyone else heard of this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I used to use Castrol RS 0w40 before.... now using Castrol RS 10w60
03-05-2004, 08:14 PM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (Nick7)
so basically, i should use 15w 50 in the sumer, but 10w 30 in the winter? i live in Las Vegas so it gets hot as hell... but the winters are colder than people think...
03-06-2004, 02:42 AM
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Re: Anyone runs 15Wxx or 20wxx oil during summer? (lvbuckeye)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lvbuckeye »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so basically, i should use 15w 50 in the sumer, but 10w 30 in the winter? i live in Las Vegas so it gets hot as hell... but the winters are colder than people think...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'd say it sounds right
I'd say it sounds right
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