MugenSpeclNY

any1 try out the gtx3576r or have any dyno graph with it. I've seen a few graphs on evos but nothing really for hondas. Please post if you have... prefer b-series. Seems like it will be a really nice upgrade for any gtx3071/76 users.


Click these for info i have found on this on other GTX turbos

Links:
Perrin Comparison Part 1
Perrin Comparison Part 2
Evo forums comparison GTX3076r vs GTX3576r
Garrett Releases the Garrett GTX3576R Dual Ball Bearing Turbo

Videos:

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

hmm. Interesting. what specifically is the poor match of the compressor and turbine wheels of the of the GT3076R? The standard 60-1 turbocharger, sure... But I'd like to hear your input on the flaws of the GT3076R.

As a matter of record, the Evolution guys have always had an issue of combining good rotational speeds with the use of a larger exhaust wheel for higher end power. The GTX3576R seems to address this issue with the GTX3076R compressor wheel and GT35R 68mm exhaust wheel.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Maybe he means GTX3076 is pooly matched?

B18C5NA

this is a little bigger but i have the gtx3582r and its awesome ! 19lbs 93 oct b series

MugenSpeclNY

yes thats what i meant sorry.

edited original post

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I assume you have seen the GTX comparisons done by Perrin? I would agree that the new GTX76mm wheel is clearly too much for the GT30 turbine. Even my old GT3076 can outflow the turbine and the GTX version flows 8lbs/min more then the GT. I think the GTX3576R would be a great balance that I’d like to try myself. There is a strong chance that will be my upgrade for 2013.

MugenSpeclNY

yes i have read it(have it bookmarked) its a very good read, i suggest if any1 hasnt read it to give it a go. I will post links for any1 who wishes to read the article in this post and i will also edit the original post with the links.

Perrin Comparison Part 1
Perrin Comparison Part 2

I have to agree muck, this turbo does seems like a very solid option and would love to see your crazy set-up with this snail strapped to it. btw very jelly of your hytech mani :p

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

It would definitely be interesting to see, but I still wouldn't use a slippery slope as as reason to call the GT3076R as "mismatched"... Not even close compared to a true "mismatch" like the standard 60-1 compressor with the stage 3 exhaust wheel. Now that's a mismatch

MugenSpeclNY

edited OP

adding more links on info i was reading about the turbo.

Evo forums comparison GTX3076r vs GTX3576r

Garrett Releases the Garrett GTX3576R Dual Ball Bearing Turbo

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

1) having his catalytic converter changes the game entirely for any responsiveness for either turbocharger

2) He was already pushing the GTX3076R at over 31psi of boost pressure. The turbine wheel doesn't like anything after about 30-32psi of boost pressure anyway with only 60mm. Of course he's going to run a bit better with the larger 68mm turbine wheel of the GT35R (GTX35R) at the same boost pressure for that need.

Few if anyone is going to be silly enough to run 31psi of boost pressure on a regular basis for any period of time. Plus it doesn't address anything with transient response between the two. This is an Apples to oranges comparison in most cases. But, with higher boost pressures, it is very relevant.

It is true with what was said in that thread.....Summary:

<480@wheels GTX3076r
>480@wheels GTX3576r

But its not a good description of a "mismatch"...THat describes the correlation between turbine and compressor wheel. One runs out of steam the other doesn't , and the compressor wheel was newly designed to handle both exhaust wheels. Prettey efficient if you really think about it.

MugenSpeclNY

ok im just posting what ive read so far, im glad your responding in regards to the threads. if i had $ i would give these a go to find out myself but the funds just arent there yet(3,000$ saved, slowly but surly im getting my funds for my kit.im assuming about 5500-6000$ for the setup i want to run.)

back on topic, in that evo forum thread i think tony the tiger's post really summarized what that thread had to offer very nicely. Ive still be on the hunt for more info on the gtx3576r vs gtx3071r/76r.

I dont really know that much more then what i have read. This thread is mostly for me and others to learn instead of me teach, im going to be posting info i find and see how others with more experience chime in against what i have found. so i thank you shodan for your input so far. lets keep it going! i really wish perrin tested the 3576 as well instead of just the 3582 with .63/.82 A/r, im hoping they test it in the future.


Also, in regards to the gtx3071r vs gtx3076r. does the 76 really make that much more power to warrant the 76 over the 71. from what i have read it doesnt, it just gets choked up, up top.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's no problem. I'm learning from the Garrett guys direct and other analysts as you're learning from forums.. (Which we all know tend to be a bit biased anyway..)..

I'm noticing that in the Evolution world, for those that are using 2.2 and 2.3 litre stroker setups, they LOVE the GTX3567R for even street use for power slightly over the 500whp, its really a much better matchup for midrange torque and upper end power over the 2.0 litres. But they also run a GSC, Cosworth, or HKS camshaft with these builds as well.

I Do think that they can really help Honda B-series 2.0 litre and K-series 2.4 litre setups more than anything. I do see a LOT of them used in SR20DET and RB25DET time attack cars with great powerband results.

What people sort of forgot when these turbos came out (especially the GTX3076R) is that they looked at the compressor map only thinking it could create the airflow of a stock GT35R, and naturally thought that it was a GREAT REPLACEMENT for the GT35R with reduced "spoolup".. but they didn't look at the turbine wheel or exhaust flow map. So when people got these, they were initially disappointed because they were only getting at most about 560whp out of them, and wondered what happened. Well, it was the exhaust wheel.

Garrett made a great compressor wheel for the GTX3076R but it was so refreshing to see a choice of turbine wheels to take advantage of the compressor wheel without a lot of increased cost to the whole package..

So, I'll keep this thread updated and what I'll do is do a video review of the GTX3567R from a specifications viewpoint like I did the GTX3071R.. Sound good?

MugenSpeclNY

Sounds perfect will be looking forward to that! Thanks

hmm i didnt know the Nissan crowd was so into this turbo already. I have a bunch of friends that all run SR20's, none have a 3576(a few gt3071's and t3/t4 setups), they're all into drifting and participate in drift events at E-town granted they drift(not TA or drag) but they are involved in the scene pretty heavy so i will ask them and maybe they know of people running the turbo and see what types of results they are having with it to see if i can get any extra input.

Edit- Since you are going to make a gtx3576 video, if you dont mind, would you be able to link your gtx3071r video? i would like to add it to the OP so once you get the 3576 video it would be a quick way to reference both videos and compare these two turbos, granted this thread was started for the 3576 i think any info on the GTX series turbos is welcomed and much appreciated.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Absolutely. My pleasure... Just give me a couple of hours

MugenSpeclNY

No luck with my Nissan buddies. Still looking for some dyno graphs on B-series, was hoping for something on evans-tuning.com but nothing yet.

riceball777

great info. I'm in the market for a bigger turbo for my s2000. I was really thinking about getting the gtx3076r with the .63 hotside but I have read that the new gtx3576r will make more power with no lose of spool, so I,m really starting to consider to get the gtx3576r over the gtx3076r.

Is there any truth to my above statement?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Logic tells me the bigger 3576 should take longer to spool than the 3076. how much is the question. But the same? doubtful.

MugenSpeclNY

In the link to the Evo forums that i posted in the 3rd page a post by "Tony The Tiger" i think sums up your question.

"There is always a trade of, whenever stepping up the turbine wheel..

I really liked 240Z TwinTurbo's conclusion, basically, it wraps up what you should consider with the turbo.

Two things when we overlay compressor wheels vs turbine, is that the GTX3076R is still going to be the best turbo before surpassing 500 WHP on a stock Evo motor.

What this means, is that UNLESS you are going past 500 WHP, the smaller GTX3076R turbine will spool sooner, respond faster, better transient response and quicker torque upon throttle movement. The GTX3076R will be much more "peppier" to drive around. There is no turbo that can replace the GTX3076R, because to reach 500 WHP and stay within 75% efficiency range, only the larger GTX3076R compressor wheel can do it. The smaller GTX3071R has a better comp/turbine ratio, but the wheel runs at < 68% at 500 WHP levels. Big difference.

In a drag race scenario, then the GTX3576R will reach 500+ WHP sooner or identical to the GTX3076R; so if you intend to run this turbo at 500+ WHP, it will spool and reach 500WHP the same or a bit sooner than the choked out GTX3076R turbine. This reflects on the dyno results, when the pull was done starting at lower RPM's and the turbo had lead time to build speed. The results will look very similar on a steady dyno pull between the two turbos. This can confuse some people regarding "spool". What we see on the dyno to what we feel when we mash the throttle are completely different things though

On the street, the GTX3076R will no doubt "reach" 450WHP quicker than the GTX3576R. So if the folks are concerned about stop light rolling races, the GTX3076R is still a faster spooling turbo off the line. The GTX3576R can maintain 500+ WHP easier, so it will be more responsive in a drag race condition between shifts, and off the 2-step out of the hole.

You can alter the engine too (for those doing a motor build) to manipulate exhaust flow vs WHP. Increasing compression ratio lowers BSFC, lower EGT's and less exhaust energy so it uses up less turbine flow. Longer runner exhaust manifold and nice merge collector will also make the engine see less backpressure. You can witness huge reduction of exhaust pressures just by building up your motor differently and changing certain things on your setup, so you don't have to dwell into finding which turbo works best. Rather, build the engine to match the turbo too get the best of everything.

I have had many occasions, on all sorts of cars and engines, between the GTX/GT30R vs GTX/GT35R... Regardless of what the dyno says, the moment you drive the car you'll notice the GT35 turbine is a much bigger turbo if everything else was identical on the motor."

high lighted in bold is the TL:DR answer.

agreed.... ISO more info!!!! lol

riceball777

logic tells me the same thing but from reading on the evo forums and seeing the different test. I read that the gt30 turbine wheel is poorly matched to the high flowing gtx 76mm compressor wheel. and going to the 35r turbine wheel is a much better match for the gtx76mm compressor wheel resulting is a better top end power with no lost in spool, This would mean people should go in terms of power goals from the gtx3071r to the gtx3576r to the gtx3582r and skip the gtx3076r all together.

How true this is I don't know but I do know the normal gt3076r was very popular and very successful.

I have a ball bearing old school 50 trim turbo on my s2000. I'm making just under 400whp on 91 octane and am maxing out the turbo at 500whp on e85.

I'm looking for more power on straight 91 octane and I was a fast spooling good drivable street car. The car will fun 91 octane 99% of the time and e85 1% of the time.

what turbo should I upgrade to?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's one person from the Evo crowd saying this. Similar to what MugenSpeclNY was stating. Its a very limited stated, especially considering the fact that they are dealing with turbochargers that are not using the proper reverse rotation turbo anyway.

It is, and always will be for the efficient 4 cylinder platform. Please believe..

You're not even getting full 500whp without it dropping off, so you're definitely in the realm of a newer turbocharger. The question you have to ask yourself is, what purpose are you trying to use this for on the S2000? Please don't say just "highway runs".... you can get almost any turbo for that.

Power level desired? Purpose?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Only the serious TA crowd was using this turbo. The drifter crowd are typically cheaper people since they have to repair their car more often, and need turbochargers that stay small and compact.

Here's the GTX3071R review. but it focuses more on the profile of the turbo and not "dyno numbers" and all that stuff.

riceball777

My goal with a different turbo is to make 450whp on straight 91 octane with the fastest spool possible.

Right now with the old school bb 50 trim turbo I'm at 395whp on 91 octane and 501whp on e85.

What turbo do you recommend for me? Cost is no issue. I was origionaly thinking about the gtx3076r with a .63 ar gt 3 inch vband hotside. But after reading about the gtx3576r I don't know any more. I also want to stay away from precision turbos.

kbouchard1092

500 Whp on a BB T3/t4 50-Trim? Really.... Mind sharing your setup. What psi?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I thought there was a ~550whp dyno of the GTX3071R somewhere. I cant find it now of course.

MugenSpeclNY

i got a laugh outta this thinking of my friends cars they are missile cars minus a few hahaha but to their defense they go cheap on body repair not their engine parts.

Thanks for posting the video! will put in OP for easy access.