ComptonsF1NEST

I just rebuilt my LS motor and to prevent theft of my car i do not want to have a front mount on my car. Instead i was thinking of an Air-to-Water ic. I wont lie, i have no information about these or how i would go about installing one into my teg...ie water pump? just piping? external cooling unit? What size will i need to approx. 400 hp?

this is my idea.

Pick up one from Garrett, the one rated for 500 hp. get an electric 40 ghp or so pump and have a line running from my Trans cooler on my rad (not being used) to the pump, then into the IC, then back to the other side of the pump. All using H20. Will this boil and turn to steam or should i be using coolant?

Any insight is appreicated.

Garage 808 Hatch

an air to water requires volume, i run -6 lines to mine. i use a cheap harbor freight water pump. but i run a seperate system for it, a seperate tank with ice water in it. but its not a street car. im running the pwr 4x6" bullet style

Top Ramen

Probably need something more efficient than a trans cooler to dump the heat if you are going to drive it hard. Some of the larger Setrab oil coolers work very well as small radiators. They are very high quality and have an efficient design. I used one to support an air-to-liquid system that was putting 580 hp to the wheels and was very happy with it.

ComptonsF1NEST

i wont be putting nearly that much down, but i do want to keep my options open. I think that i will end up with an oil cooler like setup. I have a DA so the space is not a big issue but a larger oil cooler is out of the question. I might get a smaller one and put it behind the radiator or maybe rig up a honda civic Ac condesor, just cut the hard lines and put hose on their ends. i found this online and because of its size i think it will work pretty well. It is rated a little high for what i need but it is really the only thing i can find.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem


that is a pic of the engine bay, remember the DA crossmember and front motor mount. I would mount something like that were the battery is.

Jonny Black

My street setup..it can be done.

SPOOLINmatt

i think its a common sense thing that the water should flow strait from the reservoir to the IC and then to the heat exchanger and then back to your tank to keep the ice from melting as fast. I know when were making 400-500 on the dyno the ice might list 2 passes, and after we were passed 600whp, the ice wouldnt last longer than one pass haha, it might last a little longer with a small heat exchanger on the front. I know just pure water and 14 psi was keeping the temps under 100 degrees for "street driving" which my car can still be driven on the streets if i want to go goof off.

LeGeND4LiFe

Johnny black,
How high over ambient are your IAT's on the street after extended driving?

ComptonsF1NEST

most of the time, i will not be using ice, it is going to be a normally drivin car, about 3-4 times a week i will take it out. Pack it with ice for a street race or something..lol. Def not a race-only ride. As for a resovoir i am really not sure what i will be using, as for the pump, it will be a pump for a fish pond. It will circulate the water fast enough i am thinking to prevent a ton of heat conduction when it is warming up. Kind of an HMT setup. here is the specs of what i will be using. i want to keep the IC setup under 300, and i think it is very possible. I do not have acess to a tig welder so i really will have to use couplers and shyt.

Log mani
Garrett t3/t4 70/82
Tial 83mm gate 7 psi spring
Obx boost controller or Turbo Xs DUAL STAGE
2.5 inch dp
Jdm b18b on ys1 trans

Black, what is the gph on ur pump?

Jonny Black

WIth the Ninja radiator I have currently my temp see about 140-150f...I just got a larger rad



and a 10 inch fan..and should help with the temps a little better here in the heat of the florida summers.

not sure what the GPH is...next time I get a chance I see if it says on it...cause I really dont remember.

awdgsx96

I'm pretty sure Gallons Per Hour.

MidShipCivic

Has anyone compareed air/air IAT or did I miss someone talking about it.

Jonny Black

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by awdgsx96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm pretty sure Gallons Per Hour.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am saying I am not sure what the GPH is of my pump.

and I havent seen a comparisson...I wished that I did do one before I made the switch awhile back though.

awdgsx96

Oh my bad, dumb points for me.

SPOOLINmatt

weve been dynoing my car for 3 days now playing with stuff. Just keeping barely enough ice in there(a large fast food cup) and doing a pull, the IAT were consistently 75 degrees. this was in 80 degree weather and 60 degree weather. one pull makes 2 large cups of ice in the water completly melt, lol. but we did a pull right after another and the ice may have been gone but it was cool enough to keep it in the upper 70 degree range.


PWR 6x8 A/W intercooler, 2.5 gallon reservoir.

drumking15

heh finally something i know quite a bit about...

i run a/w w/ a DD running 7-15psi depending on how saucy i wanna get and i delivery pizzas every thurs&gt;sat....so it gets its shared of DD miles...

can a/w be done on DD setup...of course...but is it as effective as an a/a setup...def not..

my setup consists of a
-5 gallon resivior...i have it mounted in my trunk (5 gallon cooler)
- motorcycle radiator about 12"x12"
-custom a/w intercooler w/ denso core
- 3/4" lines (used heater core hose from homedepot)
-jabsco water puppy pump

the setup works awesome until it is complety heatsoaked...i find that once the heat is in the system its nearly impossible to get it out..sop the best ways to counteract this is to have a large resivior...hence the 5gals...now this adds weight which reduces performance...

some of the benfits...
-sleeperness...hell no one can tell my car is boosted...the only thing that gives away info is my large *** bfg 225's that i need for traction hehehe...

-ability to add ice to the system...some add ice cubes...ive found that if you add a large ice chunk like a frozen chuck made in a tupperware bowl it will last as long as 30-40 min...because of the lesser surface area of the ice...yet it remains just as effective as keepin the heat down in the system...but this can be changed by each system cause no ones total volumne is going to be the same....

if i drop lil cubes in and im already heatsoaked they nearly melt w/o changing the temps all to much...to fix this i added a drain...so i can drain out my resivior w/o starving the pump...sao i can fill it back up w/ hose water which is naturally cold...then add ice...

few things to consider...are you going to drag the setup or just street it....if you plan on draggin the setup you gonna want a switch to elimnate the heat exhchanger because once its ice cold...the heat exchanger is actaully workin against you tryin to get to ambient temps

if your streetin it a fan on the heat exhancger helps alot esp when sittin in traffic and the engine bay is just an oven and you ic and piping is absorbing all the heat...the fan helps keep the circulated water at ambient temps...also i recomend doing an old skewl trick by liftin up the back of the hood near the windshield...i noticed this helped the most esp in those 90 degree days this summer...keepin the heat out is the name of the game...

and temp wise....15lbs on a 70 degree day wont crack 100 even if i tried...and to giveyou flow wise...this is about a 400whp 1.8...

once its completely heatsoaked...drivine hard for about an hr then let sit...my iat's start around 100 and go up the more i boost...so what i do is trun n the watter pump & fan and this gets the water to ambient temps and then the addin driving flow helps keep it down

but in terms of simplicity id run an a/a...if you concerned about secuirty...layer that ****...because regardless or not no matter how much you try and build a sleeper...word of mouth defeats it...i cant tell you how many people wont even race me because they think im the person i actaully am...heh odd english...but its def fun rollin up w/ a stock exh and no big front mount...listen to some smuck run his mouth...then raace him...when i line up...open dp opens...car becomes a badass ****...w/ ice in the resivior...no many can touch me for the sole fact that its a quick car to begin w/ and when im out prowlin ive got 20lbs of ice in my trunk keepin my iats 30-40degrees below ambient...and that hand up has proved to me that it wins races...end of story...but now that everyone knows my car...its pointless to be sleeper...id be better off w/ a big a/a unit...less weight and complexity...no tuning out voltage fluctuations of the water pump....and if i wanted it to be colder id rig up a IC water sprayer w/ ice cold water...

LeGeND4LiFe

drumking15,
That's alot of good info, thanks for the informative post. With no ice, but the 5 gal reservoir and fan running, how long does it take to heatsoak on the street? And is the fan and waterpump alone not able to bring it back down to near ambient at all? Would another or a larger heat exchanger help? So in the end you recommend air/air for street over water/air?

Hondoctors

I run an air to water on the street. I use this old school spearco unit, 3-gallon resevior in the trunk, a water pump from a motorhome (used to pump water for the sink), and 8AN sending and return lines. I don't have a heat exchanger, it justs pumps water in and back out of intercooler back to the tank. One bag of ice from the gas station will last about a half hour on the street, unless I'm boosting hard, then 3 full boost passes and it's ready for more ice. The car is making just over 400hp at the wheels and 300trq.
On the dyno we measured IAT at 135 degrees (about 90 degrees outside) and during a full boost pull IAT would drop to 105 degrees.

drumking15

a larger heat exchanger would help...ive seen some on egay for about $150 and they look like a fmic which is kind of defeating the purpose but it would work awesome id imagine...

the motorcycle radiotor works well for what it is...ive seen some use tranny coolers and they work somewhat well also...like anything the bigger the system is (amount of h20) and any increase in the heat exchanger efficency will help....ive ran my personal setup for 2 yrs now

it started as a 3 gal resivior and about 3" in lines....now i have a 5gal resivior that is insulated...helps tryin to keep things cold...and about 8-9' in lines...best part of which i used some copper pipe section running thru the car so i can reach back and actaully feel how warm/cold the water is in the a/w system...

some other good ideas ive seen..

using you bumper support as the resivior...some have made these out of alum. and in theory its the best idea...using the weight of the water over the front wheels from increased traction and it is relatively close to the front meaning less weight & less lines...

the pump does matter...you dont neccasairly need pressure in this case...but you need flow...some f150's came w/ a elec water pump...havent personally used one...but i love my jabsco & a friend was running a mezierp sp? pump and both have worked great for us...minus the meziere's bushing sucking after about 4yrs of use like $3 part...heh

and ps if you though explaining a turbo system to someone w/ no clue is hard...try explaining a complete a/w setup hehe esp w/ a cooler in the trunk

drumking15

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondoctors &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I run an air to water on the street. I use this old school spearco unit, 3-gallon resevior in the trunk, a water pump from a motorhome (used to pump water for the sink), and 8AN sending and return lines. I don't have a heat exchanger, it justs pumps water in and back out of intercooler back to the tank. One bag of ice from the gas station will last about a half hour on the street, unless I'm boosting hard, then 3 full boost passes and it's ready for more ice. The car is making just over 400hp at the wheels and 300trq.
On the dyno we measured IAT at 135 degrees (about 90 degrees outside) and during a full boost pull IAT would drop to 105 degrees.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

get that charge piping away from the mani and i garuntee youll see a lot cooler charge temps...mine travels the same way...yet i have the turbo compressor facing up into the bumper and its ran in front of the radiator ontop of the radiator support in that 3" cavity...and comes back into the car w/ a straight shoot to ic then to tb...but it would require ditchin a full radiator psh...

Hondoctors

Yeah I know that charge pipe gets heat soak after driving a while. This car isn't my daily so it usually only sees short trips here and there. I'll probably wrap the charge pipe with some of the thermal wrap and call it a day.

tokesGTR

The key to keeping the water cool on the street is using as huge of a pump gas possible, none of this baby-dick fish tank pump stuff. Go pickup a remote mountable pump that's meant to flow engine coolant, or find the pumps from a ford lightning or 03 cobra to use for your pump. That and a LARGE heat exchanger with a big fan.

Kelly.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondoctors &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah I know that charge pipe gets heat soak after driving a while. This car isn't my daily so it usually only sees short trips here and there. I'll probably wrap the charge pipe with some of the thermal wrap and call it a day. </TD></TR></TABLE>

or let me redo you IC piping

ComptonsF1NEST

thanks for all of the Info. It isnt only the stolen part but i want to be unique too. Build LS with a recircuating wg and no FMIC no one will ever notice until i step on it.

I wont be using a huge pump because i really dont have space for one. Id like to keep most of my setup in the engine bay if possible. I understand that it will get heat soaked quickly. Now to prevent this, i could run a small coolant size res in the bay and have the 5 gallon in the back went i wanna go out and race hook up the 5g with ice in it.

It is a streetable car, not really daily driven, just a nice day driver.

ComptonsF1NEST

what do u say about the civic AC condensor for the heat exhanger?

drumking15

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ComptonsF1NEST &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what do u say about the civic AC condensor for the heat exhanger?</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope wont flow ****...freon is less dense than water...a motorcycle radiator is a good start ;-)....if you had the space id even run 2 civic half radiators...one for the a/w system and one for the coolant....

and def on the unique part...of the op's....1st time i took the car out in public...kid bet me $50 that it wasnt boosted...needless to say i got 50 richer that day heh...kiddies who think they know it all...btw i also have a recirculating dumptube...thing is as quite as a whistle when boostin w/ stock exh...then open up the cutout gain about 50-70whp...and its a all ***** race machine! literally like night and day difference