air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions?
 

with the H22A4 EG swap in the garage nearing completion, and coming in well under budget (~2300), curiousity got the best of me tonight. I tried to find a good location for the huge custom AWIC i've had laying out there for two yrs. It fits quite well behind the right headlight, I was surprised.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Turbo setup is a great possibility for the car in the future. So I was wondering if anyone is successfully running an AWIC setup in a daily driver. It makes sense to me: lower than ambient charge air temps, simpler IC piping, and the ever-important stealth factor. I mean, the GMC Typhoon and Syclone did it from the factory, right?

imagine a boosted H22 EG tearing through FL in mid july with ~60degree charge air temps, and no blingin' FMIC to give away the secret... https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (nuc79)
 

I don't know anything about turbos or intercoolers, but it's impossible to get colder than ambient temperatures without using some sort of chilling device.

think about it, you're cooling the intercooler with the ambient air, how can you get any colder than ambient without some sort of chiller.

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (PriMaTe)
 

you're cooling the intercooler (and charge air) with liquid, which is in turn being cooled by air. So yes, without any other cooling agent, it's impossible for the liquid (and hence charge air) to get colder than ambient. Now a lot of draggers ice down their liquid system before making a pass. So the "lower than ambient" is very possible, yet not sustainable over long periods (i realize that). But even so, it's impossible with an air/air.

should have clarified that I guess....

well in a case of say PWR, they either have a heat exchanger or some kind of sump, like a little igloo cooler for example that has ice water in it, it is pumper from the cooler to the barrel chamber in the intake tract and fills it up, hence cooling the crap out of it. now whos to say you cant have this in place with a FMIC and use both, one unit with ice and the other unit in the grille

Re: (mrbsponge)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrbsponge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">now whos to say you cant have this in place with a FMIC and use both</TD></TR></TABLE>

wow, never even thought of having both, although it's mechanically possible. that would be some freakin low charge air temps. I guess there's a point though where all the added weight starts drawing away from some of the benefits of the lower temp...

Re: (nuc79)
 

I did a search and this topic has probably been covered 10 times already.

Re: (Stewie)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stewie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did a search and this topic has probably been covered 10 times already.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good for you. post those search results please. what keywords and search parameters? because I've specifically asked for examples of people that are actually using this setup on a daily driven car, and their opinions. I've searched, and I didn't find any except SiR Kid's old EF/ED setup: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=873082

The few other topics I've found with people asking about AWICs have replys like "i've heard.." and "yeah, you could do that..."

Oh, and the most annoying, "do a search".

Like I said, show me some more documented and photographed daily-driven setups, because I guess I didn't already do 4 searches with very little results... must've been hallucinating...

Re: (nuc79)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nuc79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

wow, never even thought of having both, although it's mechanically possible. that would be some freakin low charge air temps. I guess there's a point though where all the added weight starts drawing away from some of the benefits of the lower temp...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you say pressure drop quick enough too https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmileo.gif

it wouldnt be to much pressure drop then just usng a refular a/a setup. with a a/w u get a very minimal pressure drop compared to a/a. also search the net not just this site. i found people using a/w setup on the daily driven cars with great results.

Re: (Prelude91siT)
 

1. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1035918

2. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1032238

3. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=819020

4. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=771208

5. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=684528

6. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=565473

7. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=519930

8. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=498214

9. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=405865

10. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=343818

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=254216

Re: (Prelude91siT)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Prelude91siT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it wouldnt be to much pressure drop then just usng a refular a/a setup. with a a/w u get a very minimal pressure drop compared to a/a. also search the net not just this site. i found people using a/w setup on the daily driven cars with great results.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was refering to using both a/w and a/a https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

see sig

Using both AW-IC & A/A-IC would be pointless. AW-IC is the better option and there is less hesitation to reach full boost because the piping is generaly so short!

reasons why im going a/w

1) stealth
2) shorter piping = less pressure drop (in the case of 2 intercoolers 1 a/a and another w/a would create so much prsssure drop it be pointless...you be better off running a huge a/w w/ ice https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

3) a/w is a little harder to tune because of fluctauting temps...but on the street w/ a good heat exchanger...tranny coolers work very well...these setups will work just as good on the street...i can dig up some aem intake datalogs from sir kids setup which is now on my friends f22/h22 prelude w/ a sc44...soon the be running...so

in my opnion a/a for cheap and effective

a/w for custom good power...w/ abilities to drop the temp even more at the track for colder air https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

Re: (drumking15)
 

here are a couple pics of my cars i have had with air to liquid setups
P.S. I still have 2 water pumps for the water coolers if u need one i will sell them cheap one is brand new in the box still
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...U-P1010188.JPG
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...O-P1010189.JPG
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...Q-P1010182.JPG
and really old hot rod car
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...4-MVC-073F.JPG

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (nuc79)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nuc79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the "lower than ambient" is very possible, yet not sustainable over long periods (i realize that). But even so, it's impossible with an air/air.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's possible with air/air, you just have to cool the fmic down to below ambient. Nitrous sprayers, CO2 sprayers, etc, work fine for this.

I like the no-FMIC idea though https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (raene)
 

One thing to take into account for street cars is the fact that a/w's are being banned next year in SFWD.

If you plan to race in this class this might be a concern.

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (raene)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's possible with air/air, you just have to cool the fmic down to below ambient. Nitrous sprayers, CO2 sprayers, etc, work fine for this.

I like the no-FMIC idea though https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

SCC mag did an article on this. The conclusion, it's nearly impossible the spray co2, nos, etc at the intercooler without ingesting some through the intake.

Also, when they moved the intake to another room so nothing other than air would go into the intake, the gains were minimal. As we know however, these things are best tested on the street.

In my opinion, at times where you want to be as fast as possible, just use a small wet or dry shot of nos. That's will cool the intake better than any form of aftercooler. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (PriMaTe)
 

I don't know anything about intercoolers or air conditioning, but has anyone looked into using an a/c system as a chiller? I really have no idea how a/c works, so sorry if this is a really stupid question...

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (nate951)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nate951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know anything about intercoolers or air conditioning, but has anyone looked into using an a/c system as a chiller? I really have no idea how a/c works, so sorry if this is a really stupid question...</TD></TR></TABLE>

It wouldn't work as an engine like Hondas VTEC motors consumes such large volumes of air; the A/C unit would have to be the size of a medium Van to chill enough air.

Air/Water is the best way with Ice mixed into the header tank! https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Buck02: Where are you getting your Heat Exchangers from? are the re-fab'd Evaporators out of the cars A/C system?

Re: (OTT)
 

I have a 99 Yamaha R6 bike radiator that I was gonna use as a heat exchanger. Decided to go air-to-air with my setup though. Lemme know if someone wants it cheap.

Sonny

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (OTT)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OTT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It wouldn't work as an engine like Hondas VTEC motors consumes such large volumes of air; the A/C unit would have to be the size of a medium Van to chill enough air.

Air/Water is the best way with Ice mixed into the header tank! https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

I mean for the a/c to cool the water that would in turn cool the air. You could sit around waiting to race with the a/c on Then when it's time to go, turn it off and make a run with your nice, cooled intercooler. I'm gonna go read how a/c work on howstuffworks.com now though...

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (nate951)
 

http://home.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator2.htm
seriously, read it (in particular about the electric kind), I bet one of the creative people on this forum can think of a way to use this.

Re: air / water IC setup in a daily driver... opinions? (nate951)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nate951 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I mean for the a/c to cool the water that would in turn cool the air. You could sit around waiting to race with the a/c on Then when it's time to go, turn it off and make a run with your nice, cooled intercooler. I'm gonna go read how a/c work on howstuffworks.com now though...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why not just fill the water tank before your run with ice cubes?