quick question on an issue im having but been dealing with for the last couple years. i have a ls vtec with a 35r on a top mount with a 44mm tial wg. Thing is i can get it to hold perfect boost at wastegate pressure ( 8lbs) all the way to 9k rpm. but when i introduce the mac valve, it will run exactly the same at wastegate, except when i start to turn up the boost it will slowly rise through out the entire rpm range. so say i give it 50% duty and it spools up to 20lbs it will hit that and then slowly keep climbing up until its at maybe 25 lbs by 9k rpm. its the same for any duty cycle other then 0 or off or wastegate only. been wondering if i need more spring in the gate or if this is kind of normal with my setup? anybody have any simliar experiences or fixes? Thanks

 

what ECU are you running? The Tial 44mm gate it a very good unit and it sounds like it’s works as it should on gate, I wonder if there was any weird corrections in your software that was adding extra duty to the solenoid. AlsoMake sure your bottom line to the gate don’t have any leaks, if so the top line would keep applying pressure and hold the gate shut.

 

Yes check for leaks on the top line.

What frequency are you running the solenoid at.

try setting the solenoid on fixed duty cycle. Does it still increase? Or only on the boost tables?

 

hondata v3. ive been through several iterations of how i connected the 3 port. all seems to do the same thing. i mean the slow boost increase is keeping my tq curve flat but id like to have better control of it per say.

 

running it at 32hz. it does it on fixed duty because that's how i test while filling out the pressure vs duty tables each season or whenever I'm testing in general.

 

this sounds like a leak to the bottom of the gate. How are the vacuum lines plumed? Also where is your vacuum source? Intake manifold / turbo outlet / or both ?

 

I’m under the impression that a Tial waste gate doesn’t see VACUUM source

 

lines are from turbo to side 1 teed off to bottom of gate, side 2 to top of gate, side 3 vent. using push lock fittings. it was previously off of the intake manifold with regular vacuum line in the same orientation. ive also tried it plumbed up as a bleed valve to bottom of gate only with the exact same results i feel like.. anyhow last night i was able to play around with it for a couple hours and realized after all these years of me revving it to 8.5 or 9k that its not actually revving that high according to the log. not sure how i have never put these 2 things together as i log every track run and make adjustments.. anyway so i noticed it does hold 8 lbs up to 7.5k rpm. then at 8k its at about 11 psi and 9k its at 15lbs. so it does appear i have boost creep from the turbo kit and the boost controller is following a simliar path. thank you to all of the replies but it looks like i need to get a bigger gate, get another gate, or just run it like i have been and be ok with it.. thanks again

 

Try setting up the boost by gear tables. In the area that its creeping, lower the duty cycle two percent or so. To see if it tapers down, drops, or levels out.

 

this i what i started to do before i ran out of play time. great suggestion

 

I used that same wastegate with my top Mount and used as little as a 3psi spring and had perfect control all the way to the redline. Something is definitely off, you can play with target adjustments , but that only trying to bandage something that’s wrong and may get worse. The only other thing I could think of since you said it only happens at a higher rpm would be timing. The more retarded the timing is , it can cause the boost to spike some. You hear the phrase ( the car liked the timing). That means the car made the same power when timing was added, but the boost would drop 1-4psi . I wonder if you have too much timing pulled at the top of the rpm scale and the boost loads up a little ? Just a outside thought on things

 

ill double check my tables when i get home from work, but if i recall im around the 16* area at 30lbs. on e85, i would really like to get a handle on it. every turbo setup ive ever had always would spike and hold/ or drop but never had boost creep before. even with **** manifolds and undersized wastegates. def getting on my nerves for sure

 

you can also put a little air pressure on the lower gate line and see if any if bleeding by the diagram and coming out the top port

 

Good ideal on the ignition being retarted

 

so i took the wastegate apart and the diaphram is perfect all the bolts were tight and no tears or pinches... but, i did find the little seal that goes around the piston shaft through the lower housing is ripped in half. its still around the shaft but torn halfway around the circumference, not actually in half. so when i push the piston up it rides up. not really sure if that actually matters. idk what to do with that or if it matters. cant find any info on it.

 

what boost levels are running and what size spring are you using?

 

at the track i see around 32psi depending on the class im in.. sometimes i only need around 16 for like slower index races. got an 8 lb spring in it. This isnt the best manifold out there if im being honest. its the rev9 top mount and im highly debating adding another 44mm gate to the front of it.

 

does it creep while at higher boost levels also?

 

well its kind of hard to tell as i only hit 30 to 32 lbs right around redline. it doesnt have a boost curve where it comes up to 30 and rides for any good amount of time.. its mainly like 1st gear gets about 12 at shift then falls into 2nd at around 10 then builds up to 30 then shift and 3rd hits around 12 or 15 and builds to 30 and sew on..

 

ok. What’s you boost target in each gear?

 

at full tilt like 14 lbs in 1st and all of it in 2 3 4. That curve i was talking about is with each gear set at max boost or 62% on the ebc for all rpm ranges. It just doest hit 30 lbs until redline. It' looks as if it takes that long to spool to it or something. But I know if I hook up the ebc wrong it will hit 30 lbs almost instantly lol. I'd be interested to get it figured out to a normal boost curve. Spool to target and hold.

 

Have you thought about just replacing the solenoid you have now to confirm or deny? They don't cost that much.

 

inuded to have a 4 port on it and if I remember right it's always been like that. I'll prob get another 3 port just to see. Couldnt hurt.

 

Why don't you run the car without the EBC... simply connect the source vacuum line to the WG and make a pull. Do you still have Boost Creep ?

 

I have. But also the way the ebc is connected it is directly from source to wg when turned off. But yeah I see where your going and I'll try again now that I'm diving into it. Haven't messed with it since holiday weekend.