MikeB16boosted

hello im boosting my d16y8 all stock for now i am looking to make somewhere between 225 whp and 250 whp. This is the setup i was think of let me know if i should add anything else.

garret T360 turbo

walbro 255 fuel pump

440 rc injectors

chipped ecu

7 psi wastgate

would that set up make anywhere near my wanted hp.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Not gonna happen. Stock pistons and rods get capped out around 200. That turbo will also be too big for a completely stock D series motor, unless you enjoy the idea of reving the motor out in every gear. Find yourself a T28, and be happy with 200, or get some forged internals, and still get yourself a T28.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

And to whatever mod moved this here AS I WAS POSTING...

MikeB16boosted

ok i will be happy with 200hp. i was thinking about buying a gsr swap for 1800 then i started looking up d16 boosted and from what i read they are just as fast as a stock gsr so why not save some money be just a fast and still have the cool sound of a turbo

MikeB16boosted

how much more hp would i get with forged internals?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to preface this by saying "Don't quote me on this."

I've seen Y8 stock blocks go up to 400 on stock sleeves, but those owners never have anything to say 6 months down the road about reliability. On a properly built and tuned setup, you could safely take it to the 300-350 mark and expect it to not **** on you.

That said, do yourself a favor if you do forged internals and pick up a Z6 crank. They run dual oil channels (as compared to the Y8's single oil channel) and are less likely to spin a bearing because of it.

dcmatt

iTrader: (7)

definitely agree with the z6 crank suggestion. is this gonna be your DD. I wouldn't boost a stock y8 I'd its the only mode of transportation. they are notorious for spinning rod bearings.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

the y8 bottom end really is a ticking time bomb, even in stock form. this is due to the single oiling port per bearing journal as opposed to every other Honda motor which has two ports per journal. I should know. my stock, na y8 spun the whole motor, even the cam randomly one day. and I took very good care of the motor and didn't beat on it. so I'm not surprised they have nothing to say 6 months later lol

I would tell anyone building a y8 bottom end that a z6 crank swap is mandatory to have any sort of longevity and reliability out of the motor. plus it is cheap insurance considering how cheap one can get a z6 crank these days, especially when you consider the cost of a built motor... (anyone looking for a complete y8 head because I have one lol: shameless plug)

I've heard from a few people that the y8 oil pump also has its flaws and most also get a z6 pump. the issue here is the y8 block doesn't physically have provisions for a dipstick, as it is on the pump on y8s. although people just take the dipstick off a z6 and drill the y8 block for it, or swap over to a z6 bottom end and out the y8 head on it.

that being said, as stated above, 250 *wheel* horsepower is more than the stock rods can safely, repeatedly endure. most agree 225 is the limit. what no one is clear on is whether that number is at the crank or to the wheels.

if you just want a fun daily driver then a 200hp single cam will absolutely fit the bill... and be reliable at that (except for the y8 issues we just covered) and provided it's properly tuned and maintained.

oil changes are key to the life of a turbo motor and the turbo itself. 3,000 miles is widely accepted as the oil change interval for a turbo motor. this also hinges on using a quality synthetic oil with lots of zinc and phosphorus. (Brad Penn, Torco, and Mobil1s race oils *not what you buy at Walmart and auto parts stores* all fit the bill) but a commonly available oil that doesn't break the bank is Rotella T6 fully synthetic. It's designed as a turbo diesel oil so it has high levels of zinc and phosphorus and its viscosity of 10w15 is fine for most gas motors. a lot of turbo Honda guys use it with great results. plus almost every Walmart carries it. just don't use a fram filter. purolator gold is the filter to use

also, when setting up your turbo oil feed line, don't use the stock oil pressure sender port, as you're feeding the turbo unfiltered oil which can destroy seals and bearings. use a sandwich plate, as the ports on it output filtered oil.

if you must use the oil pressure port, be sure to use an inline oil filter (get them off eBay cheap from NASCAR surplus in various micron ratings) and be sure to clean it at the same time you change your oil. *im doing a big thread on why the oil pressure port is bad for an unfiltered turbo feed line*

but other from that, your turbo setup will easily make 200 and will have fairly quick spool, if you ever decide to do forged internals it could carry you to the 300hp mark but that's about it.

you've got enough injector for 300hp and enough fuel pump to keep the engine supplied with fuel. I'm assuming you're going to be running 93 octane?

the chipped ecu is a great way to manage fuel and spark, what tuning software are you using and who's tuning it? I would suggest things like a wideband, so you can monitor air/fuel ratios to make sure you don't have a problem, a boost gauge, oil pressure gauge, and optionally an EGT gauge

what you haven't listed is what brand/style turbo manifold you have, what brand/size wastegate you have, what size downpipe and exhaust? 3" is preferable, what size piping (2-2.5" from turbo to intercooler and 2.5" from intercooler to throttle body) and front mount intercooler you have, plus you need a blow off valve... these are all basic requirements.. also are you keeping ac? that will determine and limit what kind of turbo manifold you get.

these are details you need to post so we can better understand your setup in order to give you better answers to your questions.

it will probably take more than 7psi to make the power you want. never focus on psi... it's irrelevant. set a power goal and run whatever psi it takes to make it. so you will need a boost controller. a simple manual unit will get you by or you could buy a Mac solenoid and have the ecu control boost.

also, the d series headbolts are notoriously weak and shifty. a set of ARP headstuds is basically mandatory at any power level to prevent head lifting and gasket failures. plus when you install the headstuds you have to install a new headgasket. this will give you some peace of mind that the gasket is fresh and the headstuds mean it's properly torqued in place. with your power goal and a proper tune and healthy cooling system this should mean popping a headgasket is the last thing that should happen.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

also read the FAQs stickied at the top of this forum. they are full of good information and should help you better understand the aspects of turbocharging a car and everything that goes along with it

also, they might help answer any other questions you might have (there's a ton of knowledge in there) but if they don't, never hesitate to post your questions. if you're willing to take advice then there's lots of members willing to give it

it sounds like you've good a fairly good foundation to start your build... you'd be amazed how many people turbo a car and don't even have a chipped ecu or any sort of fuel management lol

so you're on the right path, if you could just post the rest of your setup that I mentioned in my post (turbo manifold, wastegate, downpipe and exhaust diameter, intercooler piping size, intercooler brand and size, blow off valve brand and model, what boost controller setup you're thinking about, etc) then we can better help you to have a reliable setup that makes good power

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

not necessarily.. a straight Garrett t3 60 trim (.48/.63 turbine housing) is a fairly responsive turbo, even on a SOHC. it might be a little on the laggy side but for a DD it would help save gas and tire life

a t28 is nothing more than a t25 turbine side with a t3 60 trim compressor wheel. while I agree it will be much more responsive, finding a genuine Garrett t28 has become practically impossible. unless you get a unit off of an s14 Sr20det but even those have started commanding prices of 500-750USD used due to how scarce they've become. sometimes you can find a journal bearing t28 off of a pulsar gti-r for 350-400USD used but they are very rare

not to mention finding a t2 flanged d series manifold is hard these days. not a lot of people fabricate them (unless custom ordered) and you probably won't find a company that has them sitting on shelves.

two popular options are the Greddy and Edelbrock turbo manifolds, both t25 flanged and pop up on eBay used, very cheap from time to time. occasionally one will pop up in the marketplace as well.

if he kept his T3 60 trim, put the .48ar turbine housing on it, along with a good log manifold or generic cast manifold and had the manifold and turbine housing ceramic coated, or coat the manifold and use a DEI turbine blanket then he could see fairly decent spool/shift recovery out of the turbo he already has. especially if he's using a 3" downpipe and matching 3" exhaust.

OP if you're looking for a good, affordable 3" exhaust look at kteller.com they have numerous kits and premade exhausts.

MikeB16boosted

thanks on all the info. after reading that i have changed my set up a little bit

BOTTOM END
z6 crank mico polished
vitara low comp pistons
eagle rods

HEAD
just upgrade to arp head studs

TURBO SETUP
T3 60 turbo
255 walbro fuel pump
440cc injectors
38mm wastegate
ebay bov
front mount intercooler/ with 2.5" pipping
wideband
2.5" exhaust
lag mani/ or a mani that allows me to keep A/C
neptune ecu
boost controller

TRANNY
stage 2 clutch and flywheel

new power goal is 250-270hp daily driver i want it to be reliable also.
would this set up get me to my power goals.

MikeB16boosted

also might be picking up a whole zc swap for $150 could i just use the zc crank

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

no you can't use the zc crank

standard length rods and vitaras drop the compression ratio down to 7.5:1 or somewhere around there. that's way too low. the car will be a dog to drive out of boost and you'll actually make less power with such a low compression ratio compared to say a 9:1 motor

you need to get custom length rods to bring compression back up to reasonable levels or wait and save for forged pistons

you'll hate the vitaras if you don't get custom rods.

also, for every full point in compression you drop you lose 3% efficiency. it doesn't sound like much but you're losing almost 9% if you use standard length rods and vitaras. that means you'll see a drop in fuel economy, both in normal driving and in boost, not to mention the power loss at part throttle, under vacuum across the whole rpm range.

so again, either get custom length rods or get forged pistons.

MikeB16boosted

ok thanks again will these pistons work better? CP Forged Turbo Pistons 9.0:1 75mm
with forged rods and oem bearing.

and is that the only thing you would suggest changing in my set up? and are my power goals possible with this setup?

MikeB16boosted

i was going for 200hp then i looked a prices for forged pistons ans rod so might aswell upgrade now for only a extra $1000. that being said with forged pistons and rods oem bearing Z6 crank, arp head studs(stock head) clutch and flywheel and my turbo setup is 250-270hp a good goal? i want to have fun and not have to worry about blowing a rod thru my block.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

You can definitely get to 300 with that kind of setup. Stick with a stock flywheel - lightweight units aren't good for holding boost between shifts. As for clutches, if I could make a recommendation, I ran the Competition Clutch 6 puck sprung hub (they call it stage 4, 1620) on a similar setup. Great grab, held the added torque without problem, but still completely DD-capable without needing a huge left leg.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

yes those pistons are fine. you've got the foundation for a very solid build. you just need to make sure that the bottom end is built correctly with proper ring gaps, how the ring ends are clocked on the pistons, piston to wall gap (you'll need to take the block and pistons to a machine shop for them to hone the cylinders for the proper piston to wall clearance. you just can't drop them in the motor), proper bearing clearances, and that you use a good engine assembly lube (i strongly recommend Torcos assembly lube... DO NOT USE A MOLYBDENUM BASED ASSEMBLY LUBE) and that all fasteners are torqued to the proper specs in the proper sequences and steps

also cleanliness is uber important when assembling a motor. if doing this yourself, do it inside the house and have everything already laid out and pre-cleaned. a trick for cleaning the cylinder bores before piston installation is to use atf (automatic transmission fluid) soak some good lint free cloths/towels in it and wipe the bores down a few times. the detergents in the fluid do a great job of getting oil and grease and stuff left over from the hone off the cylinder walls

although if this is your first engine build I suggest either having a reputable shop do it or have a friend who's experienced with building engines to help you. building your first motor alone is a very steep learning curve and could end with disastrous, costly results.

I also agree, run a Competition Clutch. I've used them with great results and they have great pedal feel regardless of what stage clutch you use (they all use the same pressure plate for "shelf" clutch kits, it's the disc that determines how aggressive the engagement is and how much torque the clutch can hold. also they have great customer service and stand behind their products 110%

with a lightweight flywheel it is a toss up, while there is a greater rpm drop between shifts, the motor will rev faster, almost negating the short amount of time it takes for boost recovery. I have a 9lb Competition Clutch flywheel and love it.

MikeB16boosted

ok one more question will my axels hold up?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I have a Fidanza 7 pound (actually 6.7 lbs), and hate it. Low speed/low RPM driving seriously sucks, and boost hold while shifting was non-existent. I compared rev speeds before and after, and with the turbo, the increase is negligible at best - lightweight flywheels shine in NA applications, but from my experience they fall flat on their face with turbos.

As long as you don't go slamming on them, they should hold up just fine.

Speaking of slamming on things, follow the break-in procedure for the clutch to the T! If you don't, you'll risk glazing it and ending up with a $400 paperweight. Yes, a 500 mile break-in sucks. If you want it done ASAP, do what I did - waste two tanks of gas driving around town after installing it. A solid day of driving, and you'll know it's broken in properly.

blackeg

lol probably not over time. honestly though its not a bad idea for a axle to be the weakest link and first to break. way easier to change than a differential or clutch.

this thread is very productive you got a ton of great advice and your parts list has you right on track. wantboost is right on about the vitara and efficiency with eagle rods. i had a hatch like 5 years ago with a vitara and eagle rod z6 in it. i added a ton of timing out of boost to help a bit but it was still a bit slow. instead of accelerating at like 12" vacuum i was always driving around at 5 to 10". mpg dropped a bit i was seeing mid 20s instead of around 30. overall the motor was sweet. ran 13.8@105 all day long street tires and never gave 1 issue i put about 12k miles on it before i sold the car to save up for a house

all that said, vitaras with the custom rods i think are around 9:1 and would be fine who cares. stock the z6 is like 9.2:1. it can save you a bit of cash over the forged pistons.
dont forget to check the rods to make sure the rod bolts clear the girdle and bottom of the cylinder as you may have to notch aka dremel out some material.

MikeB16boosted

do you have any links to a manual or the specs on how to assemble the pistons and bearing gap basically how to assemble the whole bottom end im sure i can handle doing it with the help of some people i know.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Buy/borrow/download the factory service manual for your car - it will have the absolute best write-up you'll be able to find for all of the above. For a forged rotating assembly and ARP hardware, though, use the specs from the parts manufacturers (piston mfg for ring and P2W specs, ARP for nuts and bolts). What works for a Honda head bolt won't work for an ARP head stud, and forged pistons will have different thermal expansion characteristics than OEM cast pistons.

Wiseco has a GREAT sheet for ring gap specs, and how to properly file rings if necessary. You can find it here.

skateboard_ej8

iTrader: (4)

Do you have any pictures?

MikeB16boosted

i dont right now just picked up a turbo kit last night for $450 everthing except fuel pump. going to wait untill next pay check to order mi pistons.

skateboard ej8 whats the set up on you d16? 264hp sounds fun

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

$450 for a turbo kit sounds...sketchy, to say the least. What are the details on the setup?