94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

Car:

1994 civic cx hatch

Engine:

B18c1 gsr
TypeR head
Either gsr or TypeR cams (not sure)
TypeR intake manifold
LS crank
Not sure on the rest as bought by other party and haven't inspected

Goal:

Daily driver reliable car with a/c (no PS)
Want 300 HP now, with potential for 400 HP
Would rather boost quick and early than all top end as I don't want to have to push RPMs past 7500 ideally (wearing out the engine)
Fuel - 91 octane (CA gas)
No desire now to seek out E85 as I want to easily fill up at any gas station
Not using meth either

My anticipated solution...

Rebuild motor:

ARP head studs
OEM head gasket
Eagle rods
Forged pistons (CP, Wiseco, ...?)

Turbo stuff:

$600 Garrett .57 T3 turbo (not sure on specs though...)
$300-$500 MANIFOLDS: inline pro stainless, or BWR a/c Ramhorn (I like lifetime warranty and $500 price tag)
$150 Custom downpipe labor via exhaust shop
$100 Turbo oil feed and drain lines
$150 3" stainless J bends for downpipe to 2.5" exhaust
$50 Heat wrap for downpipe and manifold
$70 GM 3 Bar MAP Sensor
$80 Vacuum block w fittings and silicone vacuum line
$250 Tial wastegate
$250 Tial BOV
$200 intercooler
$100. Intercooler piping
$75 Couplers and T clamps
$500 Hondata s300
$500 Tuning (or I might street tune myself...we shall see)
_________________________________________________

TOTAL ~$3500 (turbo related costs only)

I will perform all labor myself..


***QUESTIONS***

Am I missing anything here on my parts list?

Should I skip forged pistons at this low of a power level to save on funds and just get head studs and eagle rods?

What dimensions of intercooler would be ideal to support fitting AC and 400HP?

Will I hit power goals?

What will I need to do to make this fit with a b18c in a civic EG hatch w/AC?

1. Notch block?
2. Move AC fan to pusher?
3. How are people using full length radiator with AC and turbo?


Any help is appreciated. I plan to slowly piece this together and want to do it right the first time.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

I will never get why people want a boosted motor and ac.

Its nothing but a pain in the ***.

HiProfile

I just don't understand AC and 300+ HP. A streetcar is nice with AC, but most will have issues putting 250hp+ to the ground given the average tire & road grip.

No matter what you do, 91 octane gasoline will be the limiting factor at around 400whp. Other than that, you'll have MUCH better luck with your project if you keep it simple. Get the most basic stuff together (build the motor, get the basic turbo kit, fuel pump & injectors & tuning), then upgrade bolt-on parts later.

The inline pro manifold will be a better investment. You'd be better off with a 50trim t3/t04e .63ar stage3 turbine. You'll also want an Omni/SPeedfactory/Etc 3BAR MAP instead of the crappy GM sensor, and only when you shoot for 400whp. The 10psi a stock MAP can provide for a 50 or 57 trim will get you to 300whp no problem. GSR cams will still get to your goals using a b16 head. The type-r intake manifold will actually make less power up to 8k than a B16 manifold. The best thing to do for a head is spend the money refreshing a B16 head - valve guides/seals and a proper 3-angle valve job. Silicone line is NOT compatible with fuel, so I never recommend them anywhere after the throttle body. The 3" DP is excessive, especially if it compromises your ability to run AC and a proper radiator fan. Also keep in mind most slim fans under $100 are utter JUNK, SPAL is the only thing I'd run besides stock. You'll also want to run a decent clutch, LSD Motorsports has some good cheap options.

I also noticed your list lacks fueling components. You'll want at least 650cc injectors and a Walbro 190lph pump. Those two together can power you OVER 400whp. Any large pump and you'll likely require an adjustable FPR because 255lph and larger will usually raise your fuel pressure at idle and cause lots of tuning issues. An 725cc or larger injector will be ideal for your goals on 91 octane.

diatibe24

x2

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

Not interested in building a stripped down car without AC. I also added sound deadener. Trying to build a nice quality street car that can run (someday) in the 11s yet retain AC and remain a somewhat reasonable ride and comfort level. To me not having AC is also a PITA.. .

I hated adding the AC because that's just another thing to maintain, and it has taken up room in the engine bay. Oh well compromise...

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

I can't squeeze ~400 HP out of the 50 trim I thought?

My research indicated the Omni MAPs are garbage...I've seen many that haven't even worked out of the box. I typically try to future proof my purchases to where I can easily buy replacement parts locally and at auto part stores. That is why I was planning on the GM MAP sensor...I haven't heard anything bad about those?

I do need to add injectors and fuel pump. Was planning on around 550s but I can do whatever is needed. I was just going to buy the 255 pump, didn't know about that necessitating an adjustable FPR.... Then I'd have to buy a fuel rail as we'll correct? What else would I need to hook up a fuel rail?

Silicone was for vacuum hose only..

The head sounds perfect and supposedly has 20k miles or less on it...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

One of the few areas we seem to agree on with regard to a Honda B-series retrofitted with a turbocharger going for 400whp

Whether or not its the 50 trim or 57 trim (Considering they both run the same exducer size), you're not making 400whp without some other way to resist knock. Its not going to be done with 91 swill water..(not for long at the very least)

And you won't. GM may make **** cars when it comes to ignition systems, warranties and, interior plastics, but their sensors can't be beat. Be they the MAP sensor, Solenoids, etc, you can't go wrong with the GM OEMs. They just require a little more finesse to wire in than the Omni nonsense.

550cc can do 300whp, but a bit overburdened when going higher, so I agree that the injectors need to be larger. An adjustable FPR for that power is more for adjustability if needed, but not a requirement. An a new fuel rail is only needed depending upon the FPR you use. And the B&M is a fuel modifyer not a regulator. Which means it can only go above stock fuel pressures, not below.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Your welcome...

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I 3rd this... true story.


It's not a matter of your car being "stripped out" as a precursor to not having AC... it's the fact that the proximity of hot exhaust components in relation to the ac compressor, lines, and condenser is too tight....

after you've beaten yourself retarded trying to get everything to fit you'll notice that over time your AC will get hotter and hotter and hotter until it ultimately fails, 99.9% of the time the compressor fails/locks up.

no matter how much ceramic coating, thermal wrapping, and heatshielding you do, you'll never have AC like you did when you were NA...

also you won't make 400whp on stock internals on 91 octane pump gas (pushing it even with forged internals on Cali 91 **** water) and no water/methanol injection.. at least not if you want it to be reliable.

Cheap
Fast
Reliable

pick 2 because that is what you build is going to be... and I hope you trust these "other party"... whatever the **** that means

LTCxD2B

Has anyone tried to swap the ac compressor location and alternator like a 4g63 setup? They seem to run fine with ac and an iron turboed block

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Wouldn't really work. the crank pulley alt belt is smaller than the ac belt so you can't flip them. then you'd have the other issue of the same heat that kills ac compressors killing alternators instead

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

Whether or not its the 50 trim or 57 trim (Considering they both run the same exducer size), you're not making 400whp without some other way to resist knock. Its not going to be done with 91 swill water..(not for long at the very least)



Wouldn't I be able to simply pull timing during higher boost on 91 octane?

Can I fit a .60 trim and make my goals you think?

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

I was actually looking at the AC lines yesterday and thinkingI could probably have some custom AC lines made, and run them towards the driver side instead of the passenger side. This would get the 2 big hoses out of the way.

Then go to a pusher fan.

Then I'd have lots of space for the manifold and turbo to fit (same space as having no AC and running a full length radiator).

Anybody hear of relocating AC lines?

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Yup. Costs a boat load of mooolah and takes a special touch since you will be bending pipes. Also requires AC tools to evac the system, pull a vacuum, and refill it once you are done.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

not to mention the high pressure of the freon also requires a competent welder...

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

I hadn't even thought about that. I was just thinking of all the pipe bending and how tough that really is. It's not something you pick up and nail on your first time. It's definitely not brake line.

skateboard_ej8

iTrader: (4)

Could you weld -AN line fittings and re-route the lines w/high pressure hoses for the a/c?

not sure if its quite that easy, ac would be nice in a turbo car and its been hot af lately here.

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

+1

Its 2014, is there really not a flexable hose w/fittings we can use for a/c setups? I find it hard to believe the only option this day in age is still bending hardlines.....

Edit: Google gives me this...obviously not cheap but after you hammer out how much & what size line/fittings required I dont see why this couldnt be an option. I hate the factory hardlines, running lines like these would provide an option to go to the driver side, through the fender & around to the passenger side firewall. More line, yes. But an easier/uncluttered route for sure.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Aeroquip/Aeroq...53042/10002/-1

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Typical Freon systems run a minimum of 300psi...

LTCxD2B

Yea usually about three time ambient outside temp on the high side

zpayne21

I agree with the ac situation. Yes it would be nice but like guys are saying over time with all the heat Ur compressor will fail which is what finally turned me away from wasting all the money to get it there then it ending up not working good enough to even call ac. Save the bucks on that part and buy a 15 -2 grand daily with ac. That's my 2 cents

wego5typer#431

My setup is,
Stock B18C5 w/ ARP headstuds
Go-autoworks Log Manifold
Turbonetics T3/04B 57 trim turbo ( did not have to notch block )
Tial 38mm wastegate ( 8psig )
Tial MVS blowoff valve
Go-autoworks 2.5" core intercooler ( Rated for 400 hp )
2.5" down pipe with/ Kteller 2.5" exhaust/ Vibrant Streetpower muffler
Stock radiator with Flex-a-lite puller fan/ stock A/C condenser fan
PTP Lava turbo blanket W/ titanium wrap on the recirculated dump tube
Stock thermostat
Still have A/C & PS
So here's how it runs...
Coolant temps stay around 203 deg F on a 90 deg day while running A/C
When I am driving on a long windy uphill road, she starts running hot, with everything so tight fit there is just simply not enough airflow with the added load on the engine.
Under normal driving conditions it tends to run fine temp wise, with the A/C still blowing cold, adding the turbo blanket and heat wrap helped this quite a bit.
Others have mentioned longevity for the A/C compressor and I cannot speak on that as I have only been running my current setup for 9 months, only time will tell. Keeping the A/C has been an enormous challenge while running the turbo but worth it In my opinion. I for one would ditch the Turbo before I ditch the A/C, but that is just my opinion.
There should be some pics on my profile of the turbo components installed and how tight the fit really is.

94CivicHatchGSR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the advice and info!

effin

iTrader: (1)

I actually love having a/c in my car. My setup has lasted this entire Summer with no issues. Im almost 100% sure my ac compressor is going to last, and if it doesn't ill buy another one lol. I don't like sweating while I'm driving. I only have issues when its roughly 90+ degrees and the humidity is up. My temps rise some. I still need to wrap my dumb tube and do other little things to make it more efficient. Is it worth it? Yes, in my opinion. Is it a pain? To me , nope not one bit. I've been on 6 hour road trips with no issues with my a/c temps.

Dei titanium exhaust wrap
Cx racing turbo blanket
water wetter
Mishimoto slim fan
Factory a/c condenser and & fan




My car on a trip in High 80 degree weather.