Point Two about Vi-Pec...

This system, whether good or bad (to new to tell) is being pedaled by the same head distributor in Australia as the Autronic was. Ray Hall.

Problem with that is, he has funny ideas about customer service and support (kind of like Hondata). He expects you to get support from your dealer. But what if (as it very often happens) you are no longer happy with your dealer?? Then you bring it to another tuner, but they dont' have as much expereince with the new system, Ray Hall wont support them cause they are not a dealer... you are left HUNG to dry.

This is NOT how customer service is done in America. If I have a problem with my MSD Digital 7, or my Accel DFI, or my AEM, or even my Crane cams.... I don't call the idiot across the counter at some speed shop I bought it from, I call the manufacturers tech support line, and they are HAPPY to help me

As with Autronic, this WILL happen. So,... and this DOES happen all the time.... you will end up with an expensive paper weight that no one wants to tune, so you sell it used, and buy whatever the shop you currently deal with likes.

Happens ALL THE TIME.

Unfortunately, Vi Pec is only supported by lightspeed now, and probably ever in Alberta. Nothing wrong with that, but a hundred guys around here tune Crome, hondata, Accel DFI, Microtech, Haltech etc etc....

And rally, for a minor build like yours....

 

lightspeed just started using it. and the reason i'm asking all this is because i've never heard of it before. i just don't see why i should spend $1600 to tune my car when it's not even gonna be putting out huge numbers. 275-300 WHP is about all i'm gonna see from my car. If i just get hondata s300 could i simply take it to my local speed shop and get them to install it and then it just needs tuning once again? if so i may as well do that. the car is now parked for rest of the winter so it's no big deal if the ECU isn't in the car.

 

Crome is more than enough to tune for the amount of power you are planning on making and the good thing about crome is that a dealer can tune it for you without charging a license fee. Neptune would be better but you are going to spend a couple hundred on a license fee + tuning time.

Crome = Least amount of features(but perfectly fine for most cars making less than 500WHP), no license fee, only pay for tuning time, excellent support from the pgmfi.org forum but no support from the developer

Neptune & eCtune = more stable than crome with more features, license fee, pay for tuning time, excellent customer support from the developers and the forum.

Hondata = Lots of features but no more features than neptune or ectune, very expensive, borderline forum support and no developer support other than the forum.

Vi-Pec = No one has really head of it or used it in the U.S. that I know. Very expensive and almost guaranteed to be a wiring nightmare.

Honestly you will be best off finding a reputable crome tuner in your area and getting it tuned with crome unless its going to be a turbo car. Then go with eCtune or Neptune.

 

the car is a turbo car. i just thought i would go with hondata cause i've heard about it lots and i haven't heard anything bad about it.

 

I'm currently rinnung a vi-pec v44 in my dailydrive. d16 itb turbo, and it's been good to me. i've installed the same v44 in 2 other cars and tunned a 3rd. they have all been easy to work with. starts rigth up, idles good.

my car idles fine at 1000rpm/15:1afr without any iacv, just on ignition

i don't use autotune one any systems, cause with time\experience you can do it just as fast without anyways.

you will probably end up spending more time seting up a base map on a ecu that is not plug-in, unless you have all the settings for sensors, coils. you'll have to do more reserch.

vi-pec log files paste rigth into excel for faster and easyer analysing of logs. i do most tuning on logs, so that is a pluss for me. sure you have to know excel to use this, and write the rigth spreadsheets. afther you do that a new world opens. you can paste the fuel map and get excel to tune it based on the log you pasted. and then just paste that map back in the vi-pec. a 30 minutes drive\log can be corrected in a few minutes. ign is not relevant, cause i allways do that on the dyno.

i haven't got any experience with any of the piggy back's outh there. so i'm not going to say the v44 is any better than any of them. i just like the fact that i can use it on other cars. and together with prety much any accesories, triggers factory og aftermarked.

 

would you say vi-pec is overall pretty good? i'm looking the easiest to install and less money. i hate wiring and i like to just plug stuff in. i want to find a tuning software that i can simply buy it and an ecu already installed and simple plug it in then haul the car to my local speed shop and get it tuned. i'm only looking for 275-300 WHP so it doesn't need to be the best tuning software, just something descent. if i just got hondata and took my ecu into them they should be able to install it right? then simple plug it back into the car and then they can tune it?

 

vi-pec isn't plug in, so there will be a lot of wiring. so if you don't like wiring it's probably not for you. most of the plug-in stuff is proven and works good so there isn't rely any reason to not use them unless you want the flexabillity of a universal system.

 

nah if i ever get another car it will be a honda again. really easy to boost and i really like that they're light and can make them look pretty nice. so would ever agree that hondata would be best choice for me? also i'm not gonna be driving the car till next spring so to save money should i just get hondata s300 and get it installed in my current ECU or get the ECU and s300 bundle so i don't have to get it installed? is there any big difference?

 

For your meager power goals, what is wrong with crome?

 

don't think my tuner does crome and it doesn't sound like the greatest way of tuning. just viewed their website and it doesn't give a whole lot of information.

 

You are correct, it is not the "greatest way"... The greatest way for the automotive enthusiast would be to tune with Motec and have Cosworth engineers tune it at their facility.

However, for us average guys, Crome is more then enough.

 

hondata offers a bundle which includes the ECU and everything installed along with the software. so the electical idiots like myself can just plug it in and get it tuned. that's the way all should be i think. not everyone is good at wiring and chipping ECU's.

 

Check out http://www.xenocron.com You can buy everything you need....

Or check out http://www.beyond.ca or 780tuners (alberta based forums)...lots of guys that will chip your ecu and burn you a base map

 

I would not tell this guy that ViPec sucks and then offer up Crome. I've seen a talented tuner fight with Crome because power would be inconsistent from one pull to the next, only to find out that even when no changes were made, the calibration itself, most notably the ignition timing, would vary.

And Motec is great but given that you can do just about everything you really need to do on a Honda with an EMS, plus it's plug n play, and cheaper, I'd say the AEM EMS is the best option for a serious car. I've had mine since 2002. I daily drive on it now. Passes smog, gets 35mpg city, got me 10ish hp across the entire power band. Love it.

 

well my car isn't daily driven due to the 2 feet of snow we get ever month during the winter. it's also not for a high power build. i've only got a little 18g on the car. i believe it's only good to about 300 WHP (correct me if i'm wrong). Also don't have to worry about smog. Is AEM EMS similar to hondata as in you simple buy it already installed into an ECU and simple plug the ecu in?

 

Never said Vi Pec sucks.... just pointed out that he WILL need more then 30 minutes tuning, and that support will be limited.

I've had problems with Crome.... I have also had problems with Hondata, AEM (that's why its 2 am, and I just left the dyno - AND I am one of those AEM factory trained tuners), BS3, XFI. EFI Live, Sniper, Bin Edit etc...

and more often then not, its something BESIDES the software that has gone bad, failed, fell off etc etc... lol but once in a while it can be a software glitch.

Ok, gotta get back to the dyno and finish this POS, or I will have 3 cars instead of 2 to tune tomorrow.

 

looking over everyone's post i think my decision is gonna be to stick with hondata. there's better out there i know but they're also worse. this car is in the same category. i'm looking for 500 WHP...just 300 WHP. also does anyone know what the max power is on the greddy 18g turbo? i've heard 300 before but i just wanna make sure. it's a pretty small turbo but if it will put out 300 hp i'll be happy. it spools very fast.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rustydusty1717 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">looking over everyone's post i think my decision is gonna be to stick with hondata. there's better out there i know but they're also worse. this car is in the same category. i'm looking for 500 WHP...just 300 WHP. also does anyone know what the max power is on the greddy 18g turbo? i've heard 300 before but i just wanna make sure. it's a pretty small turbo but if it will put out 300 hp i'll be happy. it spools very fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good choice

 

well thanks everyone for the help. last question. should i get the bundle that includes the ecu already chipped with s300, or should i get s300 and get my local speedshop to do the install. just s300 is like $500 roughly and the bundle they have with ECU and s300 installed is about $1000. how long does it take to install? if it only takes an hour to install then i'll save myself atleast $400.

 

$1000 for HONDATA?!?!?!?!

Buy this then... $600
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...64791

 

it comes with a brand new ecu along with s300 already installed. i also no longer buy automotive parts off ebay. had a few bad experiences

 

Comparing the Hondata s300 and the Vi-pec is really comparing apples to orange. Vi-pec is a stand alone, the other a modified ECU. Completely different worlds altogether.

Hondata has its teething problems. Just log onto the hondata Forums and you'll see the problems reported on there. I've used it and trust me, they can do most things an average enthusiast will want, but there are limitations. Perhaps the limitations are really beyond the scope of majority honda users out there, so i will not start doing direct comparisons. The hondata is supposed to be cost effective, the vi-pec is more of a fully loaded system designed from ground up for serious racing.

Vi-pec tunes its maps based on VE. One will never truely appreciate its ease of use unless they have personal experience. I have yet to meet anyone who has ran the Autronic or Vi-pec who condemns the system. Customer service is another matter.

I suspect Vi-pec will not find itself in the same situation as Autronic for those in the loop.

AEM was from GEMS if i'm not wrong. Not bad a system too. But $1600 for a stand alone system such as the Vi-pec is definitely worth it.

Vi-pec should be with the ranks of a Motec, with much easier user interface.

my 2 cents.

 

totally agree, no matter what, the obd1 honda ecu is a 8bit unit, compare to any standalone, they all are at least 16bit to 32bit, which mean they are alot more capable to do more thing accurately.

anyway, vipec seem like to be a good unit, i played with it in sema this year, more than enough injector and ignition drivers, enough av input and at input, can do many more thing with those input with many other user programmable table. which hondata or other similar cant do it.

 

would i be best off going vi-pec then? i can get it for $1600 then my tuner says maximum of an hour to tune it. if it takes longer i won't be charged for additional time. as for hondata he will not give me any sort of a deal. i will be charged for however long it takes him to tune it. so if i buy hondata for say $800 (p28 chipped ecu with s300) and then he tunes for say 5 hours at 200/hour, i'm over the price of vipec already. this obviously isn't a race car, it's just a street car. i'm shooting for only 350 whp. for my power goals should i look at something else?

 

Funny how a new product comes out and without even using it most of the tuning guru's knock it already without even trying it themselfs,yes Hondata is a GREAT product and suits 99% of the people on here's needs,I had it in my car before I went over to Vi-PEC and the car was great to drive and I had not 1 problem or complaint it served me very well and will be usng it again soon in my next streetcar.I have had a V44 in my car for testing over the last 4 months and it is plug'n'play for OBD1 and OBD2a honda's at the moment with new products coming out every week,back up service is the best I have come across in many years in this industry.The quick tune feature works very well and my D16Y8 now gets over 440klms per 30lts of fuel and makes 8kw more than it did with the other ECU in it and that had been tuned over the previous 4 months I owned this car as I use it as a test bed for tuning in different conditions as I do over 1200klms per week and the laptop is always plugged in and tuning is being done on the newer ethanol based fuels we now are getting here in Australia.To find out more about the system go to the website www.vi-pec.com.au,Ray Hall and the other guys that are involved in the way this system works have done a great job as 5 or more tuners had alot of input into the way it all works and it just does not come from someone sitting behind a desk that does not know how an engine works and needs to be tuned.I have done back to back testing with this system over other hi end ECU's and the results led to me fitting a V88 to our Rotary racecar now.
Regards Uncle Dave