FlewByU352

So I finally get everything hooked up and load the S300 ITR basemap... and I understand a basemap is meant to just get the car running and as a starting point to actually tune and adjust the values but I assumed it would be just like a stock P73 map. There is a terrible hesitation just before the VTEC crossover and datalogging shows at 8000RPM I am at 90% injector duty cycle. I know the B and D series share the same 240cc injectors but the base pressure was higher IIRC on the ITR but damn. Did Honda really squeeze what little is left out of the 240cc or is something up? BTW I plan on having it professionally dyno tuned, I switched it back to the stock P73 for the time being.

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

Stock 240cc injectors peak at around 195-200 whp (depending on fuel pressure).
So 80% duty cycle is about right for a motor making 180-190 to the wheels....

Get the car tuned or install a wideband gauge & tune the car :-)

FlewByU352

I had planned on having you tune it anyways :p Going back over the datalogging is seems that the ridiculous hesitation just before the VTEC cross over it is dumping fuel all of a sudden with a A/F of what looks like 12.5:1 based of O2 sensor voltage (which I'm not sure that is an even close to accurate way of figuring A/F out), 25 degrees timing, and .4PSI. How do you feel about ID1000cc injectors on a bolt on all motor car? I was told they will idle perfect and run flawless even being such a large size.

q16racer

look at the 2d fuel chart and i bet you will see why there is a hesitation. honda marketing at its best.

FlewByU352

Yeah on the 2D chart it peaks just before the cross over, then drops back down and smoothly raises. Why it peaks there is beyond me. Why would you need more fuel at the top of the low cam than at the starting point with the high cam? I'm not sure who made the S300 basemap, seems like someone just slapped it together real quick lol. I wonder if just lowering the VTEC engagement point would knock that section out all together? Saving up cash for a professional dyno tune, I can tune carbs all day but EFI I am still like ehhh.

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

Awesome.

Concerning the injectors. They will work fine.

The s300 basemap for an itr doesn't look anything like a finished tune that I have done.
It really is just a basemap which is something to get you started :-)

FlewByU352

Plugged it back in and did some data logging. Tweaked a few things and got rid of the hesitation before VTEC. It pulls alright but I can feel it slacking, I want to say it needs more timing in VTEC. BTW John do you have to completely re-tune from the basemap or can you upload your ITR map and save dyno time?

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

I won't use the map you provide.

Dyno tuning is sold as a package:
Pricing can be found on http://www.phearable.net/tuningsolutions.html
A vehicle like yours won't exceed 2 hours.

FlewByU352

Oh I know you wouldn't use my map but you said you already had a ITR map. Couldnt you just upload your already made map? I doubt there will be much to tweak off of that.

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

That is part of what you pay for when you pay for a dyno tune....
If I finish the car in 45 minutes or if I finish it in 1.5 hours.
The tuning fee is bundled in a dyno tune packaged price.

Not all two vehicles ever end up with the exact same tune. Modifications to the tune will likely be necessary.

FlewByU352

Just curious so I pay $500 for you to press the upload button then do a few dyno pulls to check A/F's and I get a nice little printed graph of what my car put down?

josephcmiller2

You're acting like a douche. If you're so smart, you have a dyno in your garage and all the equipment to tune it, then go ahead and don't pay for ****.

When you pay for a dyno tune you're paying for the investment in equipment that costs tens of thousands of dollars and years of tuning experience that can't be acquired from a book.

So yeah, if it takes him 20 minutes to tune your car, maybe it took him 7 years experience plus 20 minutes. This is all part of the "doing it right the first time" mentality required for long-term reliability and if you want to be a long-term engine enthusiast.

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

There is a bit more involved then pressing upload, then doing a few pulls and giving you a chart. I can understand how you would feel that if it only takes x amount of time, I should only be charged x dollars, however that is not how we run our business.

If you don't feel like paying for a dyno tune, buy a basemap calibration http://www.phearable.net/shoppingcar...ion-p-120.html, fine tune it and throw the car on a dyno during a discounted dyno day.

0mtber

iTrader: (2)

You are correct. I appreciate you pointing that out.

A lot of people don't understand the costs behind tuning.
A dyno isn't free to own, a facility to run that dyno out of isn't free, phones & internet to run the business are not free etc... There is something called overhead. We don't pocket 100% of the money being paid for tuning.

Honda_GR

My friend i have stock b16c6 (european)
And my stock injectors go 100% in full throttle (981mbar) at 8000rpms...
Also i tested it with my stock fuel pump and with the upgraded dc5 pump i installed.
In European ITR noone tunes with the stock injectors. Upgrade to H22 injectors is the best solution for me. Same size but OBD1 plug.

josephcmiller2

I said it so you wouldn't have to. I've been there and I completely understand.

92lx

it may cost $500 but you get what you pay for.

josephcmiller2

I'm a noob learning to tune for myself and that was pretty cheap. It's only cost me about, oh, at least $2,000 so far. Yeah, I had to get a new engine, redo everything and it still smokes and is not very fast. So 500 bucks would be a little too much I think.

FlewByU352

Well sucks to be you because I just ran a personal best time at the track along with a 2MPH trap speed increase.

josephcmiller2

Well a dyno tune will get rid of that hesitation you've got and likely improve your trap speed a bit more. It will also provide much more longevity, something I was sorely lacking.

FlewByU352

I tuned the hesitation out anyways. Lowered the VTEC engagement point and took away some fuel.