Txdragon

I am researching engine management and it seems that Moates (Crome, Neptune, etc) and Hondata S300 are around the same price points but which to go with? It looks as if they are both pretty user friendly with many of the same features. Thoughts?

MOCrxHf

Use what your tuner prefers.

Txdragon

Let's suppose that isn't an option.

MOCrxHf

Well then it's really a matter of which features you need. I've used all 3, currently on s300 v3. I had no problems with Crome or Neptune though.

Txdragon

I am leaning toward Neptune TBH. I have downloaded the S300 software and surfed around it a bit and it just seems.. Eh.. I don't feel that the exorbitant prices of Hondata would in any way be justified by usability.

amadeuscr

Its all about 2 things actually ...

1st ... User interface ( how easy is to use the software to tune the car )
as MOCrxHf said , what your tuner prefers but if you are trying to learn , I would go with getting an emulator from moates , ostrich , and a hulog , and get crome , S300 works for 1 car , crome can work for all your cars . just burn the finished one into a chip and you tune the next one .

2nd ... right now the only difference is that s300 has the posibility of the coilpack retrofit . and to be honest ... I'm developing a new interface for normal chipped OBD1 ECUs with no need of s300 ... which Im using right now.


one thing I wanted to make clear , s300 or crome or any other will NOT give you better performance in your car (OBD1), people think that because its hondata will make more power . don't forget that the microcontroller inside OBD1 ECU still the same in any of the cases . if you get to manage perfectly all software , same power will be comming out of the engine.


attached the coil controller .

Txdragon

Thanks for that! I feel that the UI for the moates products is much cleaner than the S300, and if the only difference is coilpack, well my choice is simple then; I have no plans on coilpack upgrading any time in the future of my car. I am always up for tuner suggestion, but I don't want some fella just saying, "oh well you need this unit (that will cost enough to feed a small country).."

amadeuscr

You don't need coilonplug , but its a good upgrade , I've been a tuner for almost 10 years already and tuned cars with and without and the difference is not that much , but if you think a little more about it , you don't need to change rotor , cap and wires so often to keep it always to 100% . I had a turboed civic with b16 a few years back , and coilonplug was never a worry for me trying to get 400whp , the focus its pointed to the engine itself and a very good tune .

Txdragon

I have noticed a bit better stability on those with COP rather than regular. I've built both, just not on Honda lol. From what I have read into this label, Honda seems very inconsistent across the board. What 1 person can pull off, another may not be able to without changing something (if that makes sense?). Sensors blowing due to electrical gremlins traced back to some wire grounding out somewhere or crappy grounding and engines grenading before their time, usually due to a failed sensor caused by above-mentioned gremlin. I don't want to push my current car past a low-set standard. I just want a peppy grocery getter. Now in time, I will go ***** out on a build after I learn a bit more on my current ride. I have been studying and making notes and plan on changing the stand of many people on the D15B7.

GhostAccord

99.9% of these Honda gremlins are user error!

From the factory All PGM-FI sensors are monitored and if one fails it will throw a code and put the ECU into limp mode before it does nay damage to the engine. Only way this doesn't happen, and you grenade an engine due to a faulty sensor, is when the user over rides this function. Honda's are very reliable when you know what you are doing! Like I said, any variation in power or mysterious gremlins are usually user, builder or tuner error!

I would opt for Neptune over Hondata any day! I have even tuned a few cars on Crome with no adverse effects. It's all in how much time you want to put into learning how to use sthe software correctly!

Txdragon

Unless a Limp mode is tuned in and enabled after (insert engine management brand) was installed, wouldn't any stock ecu safes be overridden anyways?

GhostAccord

Most of the systems that I have tuned with retain the stock PGM-FI critical system error codes, aka Limp mode. You have to go in and disable them yourself.

Txdragon

Interesting.. So then would it revert back to a stock "limp mode" or something like an initial tuned basemap? I wouldn't imagine some 600hp monster running well, if at all, on a stock limp program.

GhostAccord

In the case of a 600hp monster. I am sure the tuner would make provisions for disabling PGM-FI codes and enabling fuel and ignition cuts for those sorts of circumstances. Again it's all in the tuning and how much time and effort is put into it. However, I don't think you'll have to worry about dropping a cylinder @10k RPM in your peppy grocery getter,

Txdragon

Probably not! I would imagine with the initial setup I intend on rolling with, I would only need to tune JUST for the sake of better efficiency. First up will be nothing more than 6psi. Second will be full rebuild with OE components and 8psi. Last will be to the moon and back...

raverx3m

iTrader: (1)

demon retains the ability to be used with crome as well

which means

when you buy demon
you have ability to use with Neptune.
Neptune has serial input for about 4-5 most popular wideband controllers which means you don't have to mess with calibration
Neptune is cheaper.
but from what I gather has some issues lean restart with some users(including me)
but demon board can be used with crome. crome can be used to burn a chip If you have a chip burner and chip can be used if you only have one RTP and multiple cars that need basemaps.

money wise demon/Neptune combo is more flexible
hondata interface is more familiar for people who used crome so its apples to oranges