eddie7978

when i took my head off one of the bolts was loose and the rest were extremely tight.. the loose one also had a little resistance when coming out,
the threads do look a little wierd down there i cleaned it out..

now os i was plan on getting new oem head bolts when i get my head back from the machine shop but i’m afraid that that one bolts threads will fail when i torque it down..

my question to to you is should i thread chase the threads and then just hope for the best with new oem head bolts?
or should i use arp head studs or it doesn’t matter?

DumpdEJ6

ARP studs get my vote. If you put the stock bolts back in and one or more strips, you're going to have to get a Time-Sert kit to fix it, and those are ******* expensive. ARP studs are a lot cheaper and work better.

eddie7978

that’s what i’m thinking.. the bolt goes in and i can get it hand right i don’t wana torque it down but i
when i put the head back on i don’t want it to strip when i torque it down
i think the arp would be good because i just have to hand tighten it and then torque it down from the top so hopefully that will be less stressful on the threads in the block?

civic-steve-94

Ok so think about it this way, the whole point of using ARP head studs is to increase clamping force. When you torque the stud the nut is pulling up on the stud that is threaded in the block. The 80ft-lb torque specification is substantially higher than the OEM bolts. There for it will pull up on the thread of the block harder. My two cents it to take it to a machinist that knows what they are doing and have it inspected, and if need be have it time-serted. Before you cause I bigger headache for yourself.

TomCat39

x2

I had this same sort of thought. The only difference is there won't be radial pressure as the stud isn't turning like the bolt does but it still is going to put pressure on the potentially weakened threads.

Time-sert is the best way to go but does run about 120 USD per kit.

DumpdEJ6

That's true TomCat, but also the ARP stud is fully seated at the time of the pressure, whereas the head stud begins pulling on the block threads well before the pressure is distributed across all the threads.

TomCat39

I disagree with this thought. The bolt doesn't start emitting pressure until it begins clamping. As such only 1 at most 2 mm of thread is not already touched by the bolt threads.

The one area I think the ARP setup has advantage is that the stud goes in until it bottoms out hand tight. So it utilizes more thread that the bolt never sees.

However, the spec is 30 ft-lbs tighter than the bolt (80 vs 50) and if the top half of the threads are already compromised, I am not sure the little extra virgin threads are going to hold that extra 30 ft-lbs of pull.

eddie7978

wait i thought the arp was the same torque specs as oem?

TomCat39

Not as far as I know. It's supposed to be better than OEM and is why it's a requirement with forced induction if you want any kind of reliability. More clamping force to hold back the higher combustion force.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/drag-r...-specs-494573/

eddie7978

it says 63 for the b18c5

TomCat39

That is factory service spec with OEM head bolts. ARP is different and you do ARP specs with their studs.

So the B16 appears to be a 20 ft-lb difference versus the 30 ft-lb of the SOHC motors.

eddie7978

ok.. so which would have less of a chance to stripping out the aluminum block threads?

DumpdEJ6

TomCat I see your point. It would be interesting to find out exactly how much further the ARP stud threads down into the block than the stock bolt.

TomCat39

You can do some measurements with a chaser to find out.

I used this same concept to fix a transmission mount stud on my 2007 civic SI. The stock stud only utilized about 50% of the threads and got stripped by the previous owner's mount swap (incorrect mounts at that). My fix was to cut the cone off the long thread part of the stud, clean up the edge and thread that into the bottom 50% of the threads that were still good. I figured since Honda spec only required 50%, my fix would be just as strong as it was from factory. Worked out pretty decent.

I don't think the head bolts are quite the same as far as 50% thread usage.

eddie7978

so hers a picture of the one bolt that was loos i put them in hand right and it’s not going as low as the rest of them

eddie7978

DumpdEJ6

My vote still goes with the studs. If you use the studs and it strips, the bolt likely would have done the same, or failed later on, which would be even more of a pain in the ***. Or you could call around a bunch of machine shops like I did when I had the exact same problem, I was able to find someone who was awesome enough to let me borrow his Time-Sert kit. I gave him like $200 as collateral and he gave it back after I used it. That engine is in my daily right now with 20k miles on the new head gasket.

eddie7978

is it safe to put the arp studs less the 80ft pounds?
also when i pulled the head bolts off they were extremely tight like it took all my strength with a huge ratchet seemed like it was way more then 60ft pounds.. idk if that’s normal

TomCat39

No it wouldn't loosen. It could have not been installed correctly but factory would have caught that or so I would like to believe. Sounds to me like a bad head gasket job was done before you got the car.

I use a 3 foot 1/2" breaker bar on head bolts and it still takes a bit of oomph to get the head bolts to break free. It's natural. They are stretched to hold so all the metal is at it's peak elasticity before actually becoming a problem, that is a lot of friction to overcome to get the sucker spinning.

I too would go for the ARP studs and nuts. If it works it's a solid upgrade and if it doesn't it was going to be a problem anyway just like what Dumpd said.

eddie7978

hey so my engine builder said not to use arp head studs and just the oem head bolts instead

Cupajoe

if oem rebuild use new oem head bolts if you want to hold any power in future go arp.

eddie7978

DumpdEJ6

Try to find someone with a cylinder head Time-Sert kit who will let you borrow it. That's what I did when the head bolt threads stripped on my '05. It sucks it didn't hold, but it's better that you find out now than 2 weeks from now when the head gasket fails.

eddie7978

DumpdEJ6

I posted on a few local car related Facebook pages. The only alternative is buying it yourself, which is $400+. I gave a guy $120 as collateral and borrowed his set. Call every machine shop in your area.