Honing B16a2 rebuild

 
Old 07-17-2017, 06:46 PM
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Default Honing B16a2 rebuild

Hey what's going on HT, So I am currently in the process of rebuilding my B16a2 out of my 94 civic vx Hatch because it is blowing smoke during acceleration. I just finished pulling out motor this weekend and I am in the process of tearing it down. Now I am planning on honing the block out myself and install new rings along with new seals. I just wanted to know when honing the block would I need to worry about getting oversized rings or would I still be able to use standard sized rings?
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

If there's no scratches/gouges on the walls, and still visible cross hatches you shouldn't even need to hone them. If there's any marks of scoring whatsoever on the walls, or no cross hatches at all then go for the hone.

If you just used one of the ball hone bits along with motor oil, then you're hopefully not really taking off any notable amount of material from the cylinder wall. Light hone, make sure you gap the new rings appropriately with piston/wall clearance and you're good to go.

Something to consider though is if the engine has high miles on it, the cylinder walls can become out of round, or slightly ovaled. Can get that checked at a machine shop and see what they say, if you end up having to bore it out even .025 then you would end up needing a new set of pistons too.

Last edited by Chance EG; 07-17-2017 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Some words
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

Originally Posted by Chance EG View Post
If there's no scratches/gouges on the walls, and still visible cross hatches you shouldn't even need to hone them. If there's any marks of scoring whatsoever on the walls, or no cross hatches at all then go for the hone.

If you just used one of the ball hone bits along with motor oil, then you're hopefully not really taking off any notable amount of material from the cylinder wall. Light hone, make sure you gap the new rings appropriately with piston/wall clearance and you're good to go.

Something to consider though is if the engine has high miles on it, the cylinder walls can become out of round, or slightly ovaled. Can get that checked at a machine shop and see what they say, if you end up having to bore it out even .025 then you would end up needing a new set of pistons too.
Ok great thank you also what about decking and milling the block and head for a flat surface wont that change the compression ratio? Is there anything i could do to make sure the pistons and valves dont hit ?
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

Originally Posted by Jdejesus01 View Post
Ok great thank you also what about decking and milling the block and head for a flat surface wont that change the compression ratio? Is there anything i could do to make sure the pistons and valves dont hit ?
If you tell them to only deck/mill them as much as is needed for a flat surface it shouldn't have a huge impact on the CR (but yes, it will get a slight bump). Shouldn't change the behavior/running of the car at all.

You can use clay/play-doh to check P2V clearance on the engine before finalizing the assembly. Basically just requires you to have the block assembled and the head partly assembled, lining up TDC and rotating the crank over to see what impression is left on the clay. There are a lot of videos on YouTube that show the process, it's not too bad.
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:46 AM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

Originally Posted by Chance EG View Post
If there's no scratches/gouges on the walls, and still visible cross hatches you shouldn't even need to hone them.
I disagree with this.

The crosshatches have been dulled by the original rings and won't have the same peaks to seat new rings even if the cross hatch is present. Instead they only have the valleys to hold the oil to the walls.

I would suggest a light hone regardless, if new rings are going in. This provides the short lived abrasiveness required to help seat the new rings properly. This is assuming the cylinders are within spec for taper and out of round.

You don't hone if it's FRM material for new rings but the B16A2 I am pretty sure is standard sleeves, not FRM.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

Originally Posted by TomCat39 View Post
I disagree with this.

The crosshatches have been dulled by the original rings and won't have the same peaks to seat new rings even if the cross hatch is present. Instead they only have the valleys to hold the oil to the walls.

I would suggest a light hone regardless, if new rings are going in. This provides the short lived abrasiveness required to help seat the new rings properly. This is assuming the cylinders are within spec for taper and out of round.

You don't hone if it's FRM material for new rings but the B16A2 I am pretty sure is standard sleeves, not FRM.
Just so you know kinda where I was getting the "no hone" idea from: https://books.google.com/books?id=8R...ngines&f=false

And I'm pretty sure I've seen the same practice mentioned by Honda machinists and shops, although I do agree with you that at the very least a light hone is a good idea. I feel like it's one of those "not necessarily needed, but never a bad idea" decisions.

And yeah, the only B series engine that had FRM sleeves was the B21 which almost never gets talked about. H series, F2*C, and the NSX C32 engines also had them.
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

Originally Posted by Chance EG View Post
Just so you know kinda where I was getting the "no hone" idea from: https://books.google.com/books?id=8R...ngines&f=false

And I'm pretty sure I've seen the same practice mentioned by Honda machinists and shops, although I do agree with you that at the very least a light hone is a good idea. I feel like it's one of those "not necessarily needed, but never a bad idea" decisions.

And yeah, the only B series engine that had FRM sleeves was the B21 which almost never gets talked about. H series, F2*C, and the NSX C32 engines also had them.
Good read. Plateau honing after a hone speeds the break in and reduces break in wear...

The question then would be is the surface ideal for break in for new rings as long as you see crosshatching? Or is it reduced enough to need a light hone and then a fast couple passes of a plateau hone?

It also mentions OEM rings appear to be superior to any after market rings you can get for the imports (Honda was mentioned).
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

Where do you find deck plates?
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

I've heard of people buying them but they weren't cheap.

The book linked by Chance EG said the open deck D and B series don't need deck plates to bore and hone.

When I googled it a couple of years back back they were over 350 USD a plate and I don't recall who made them.

Even the pros at Team-Integra and at D-series.org say since the sleeves are free standing, the bolts don't distort the sleeves so deck plates are pointless for the D series and B series.

But if you insist, here is the b-series deck plate on ebay for 369 USD:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACURA-HONDA-...item3d3b86b156
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Old 07-20-2017, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Honing B16a2 rebuild

OH, I read further and saw that part now. Ok nvm.
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