I looked on the NHRA web site but didnt find what I was looking for. Here is my question I thought that once you stage your car or bike and the stage light comes on you couldnt roll it back into the pre-staged position and turn the staged light off.
The reason I ask this is because I was just watching the Pro Stock bike race I know Shawn Gann he races in that class and during his race that is what happened. Blaine Hale rolled his bike up to the pre-stage light so did Shawn then Blaine went and staged the staged light came on Shawn did the same but then Blaine rolls his bike back into pre-stage position and Shawn takes off without the tree ever really being activated. So Blaine then stages his bike back up and takes off after the tree was activated and they gave him the win??? I know that in other branches that if you roll back into pre-stage you loose that race. Is this the case in NHRA?

 

The only problem was that Blaine never fully staged it was just a blink if the light and not a solid light. If he had rolled out as the lights came on he would have lost.

 

So the tree has to start cycling? I thought that once both racers were staged and one rolled out of the staged light he lost that race.

 

Old guy on this board is Jim Skelly. Really cool guy. Race director or something NHRA and will answer this question as soon as he sees it. I dont think he is on H-T 24/7 but wait and he should give a the correct answer. Sorry i couldnt answer this question.

 

I saw that also. It has to do with how the Auto-Start system works, and how certain functions are set up. I'll try and make this as simple as possible.

There's a setting called "staged minimum". This determines the length of time that a stage bulb must be lit before the computer will recognize it. This is to cover any "flickering" of the stage bulb. At Sport Compact events this is set it at .6 (I think this is the same for POWERade pro classes.) So a stage bulb must be lit for at least six tenths of a second for the computer to recognize it.

There's another setting called "staged to start". This is the time between when the computer recognizes both stage bulbs, and when the ambers are activated. At Sport compact events this is set at .5, or half a second. So when the computer recognizes 2 stage bulbs, it counts half a second and flashes the ambers. (There's a variation set in there to keep everyone honest, but don't worry about that right now.)

The third setting is "total time-out". This is how long the computer counts after seeing one stage light, until it red-lights the other lane for not staging. In sport compact events and POWERade pro classes this is set at 7 seconds. So once someone has staged, the other lane has 7 seconds to stage or receive an automatic red light.

The critical setting in the bike situation was "staged minimum". The right lane obviously did not have the stage light on for six tenths of a second, so the computer never saw it. The left lane went in, and must have been trying anticipate the tree. Didn't see what happened on the other side of the tree, and when he lit his stage light, must have counted "half-a mississippi" and left.

Once both cars are staged, if one backs out, then he/she will get the redlight, because the computer only sees the beam. It doesn't know if you go forward or backward.

I'm going to stop there, because this is already way too long of a post. If there are any more questions, or if this is REALLY confusing, let me know.

 

old guy, thanks for the "teaching"

Rule of thumb for me was never back out unless it was T&T.

I do hate so of the autostart effects, at least the way my local track runs it.

Both cars fully staged for 15 seconds (my SOHC on 7000 rpm launch) is not nice to parts and engines.

Yes the shutdown area was clear. Starter must have had a brain fart.

 

sorry to hijack the thread but.......


old guy, can you please explaing to me the new ruling about deckplate engine's in the sport compact "hotrod class"? i dont understand.

gm,mopar,ford. have more displacement than most honda's have. by alowing us to run with the deckplate engine's it will allow our displacement to be more equal to that of our competitors.

thanks

dave
PSI PROformance.

 

Displacement has been a concern of NHRA since the series began. In the NHRA world, if there is any sort of displacement rule in place, all 8 or all 16 qualifiers WILL be checked before first round of eliminations. Random checking or waiting for the final to check the winner is not acceptable. Whether by the "pump" or actual bore and stroke measurement, no one has to tell you guys what a pain in the behind it would be to have to remove the cams or the head on Saturday night at every race. No fun for NHRA, either.

The rule prohibiting anything other than factory blocks, coupled to prohibition of deckplates, gives NHRA some "baseline" for displacement without having to actually check it. It's fairly simple to determine the max available bore of a given block, even with sleeves. Without the ability to add deck height, pretty simple to find out max available stroke, also. This would give NHRA some latitude to start making different weight breaks for different blocks based on "available" displacement.

Having said that, NHRA was recently given a new tool that allows accurate checking of the bore through the spark plug hole. (checking stroke through the plug hole is pretty straightforward, it's the bore that was hard to figure out.) They are trying it out at the next few races, documenting displacements of various engines and verifying it's accuracy. If it works, this changes the whole nature of the game. So stay tuned.

Anyway, does that explain the deckplate rule?

 

Now this is what you call answering your questions Thats really great that Old Guy takes some time out as busy as he is to come aboard to our level and help explain some of the techinal aspecs of drag racing(trust me,he's has been around, i dont mean by age JIM i was talking about expereince i swear). Jim Skelly NHRA


Modified by Camp at 12:03 PM 8/5/2003

 

Thank you for your time Jim...I have a question that's based off of the starting light.

During most import drag racing events(bracket racing) the idiot(no harm meant, but you understand my meaning) in the other lane has already staged their car prior to the cars that are currently running have finished their runs, or have cleared the track. Are there any issues when you're using an autostart staging tree, does this then give you 0.6 seconds to stage once the current run has been made? I never stage my car until after I have seen my "dial-in" time illuminated on the board. Just a little curious, as I've never had an issue, but I know that there will eventually be an issue.

Thank you for your time,

Austin - NHRA ET-1 bracket winner, Sonoma 2002

 

No problem, I'm the one who's proud to be here. I'm called Old Guy for a reason, and it's not my experience. lol Like mom says, don't worry about getting old, because there's only one other option.

 

The starting line is really controlled by the starter at any given event or track. Autostart is also not always used in ET Bracket races, because of the number of "first timers" that typically show up. Using a manual tree gives the starter some latitude to help out newbies that otherwise wouldn't be possible with autostart. So one of the important things to ask when attending an event is whether or not autostart is being used.

Your staging procedure is correct, waiting to see your dial in. Otherwise, if you stage with the wrong dial, you've bought the race, win or lose. So the other guy is taking a big chance by staging so quickly, but he probably doesn't know any better. I'm surprised the starting line crew would allow someone to stage without giving them some official "wave in" or something.

If autostart is being used, nothing starts happening until there are 3 lights at the top. If your opponent lights both bulbs before you light the first one, you have as much time to light your top light as the starter will allow. (Something else to ask about.) Once you've lit the top bulb, that's when the tree starts counting. In the NHRA series, the professional classes are set at 7 seconds. If your second bulb (stage) is not lit in 7 seconds after 3 lights appear at the top, then you get a red light. It ET brackets, it's typically set slightly longer, as much as 10 to 15 seconds, so this is something else you should ask about when going to an event.

The .6 setting is the time that the second bulb (stage) in either lane must be lit before the tree "recognizes" it. This is to insure that the 7 second countdown doesn't begin on a "flicker" of the light, as happens when you're carefully bumping into the beam.

 

Old Guy, I have a question about staging as well. Whenever I go to stage if I am first then I only put the prestage light on until the other lane prestages also and then I final stage, I thought this was just racer's etiquette and also some track rules too. Am I completely wrong of what I have read? Sh** if that's the case you could hurry up and fully stage and get the other person redlighted because they hadn't staged quick enough? HMMMM.....


edit:Doh! I see my answer while I was posting you must've just posted.

 

The procedure you employ is called "courtesy staging", waiting until both lanes have pre-staged before advancing to stage. In the Sport Compact series, this is actually enforced, and you will see the starter occasionally back someone out who has lit both lights before the other lane pre-stages. Even when not enforced, it is proper etiquette. It also makes sense. Once you've lit the stage light, you're pumped and ready to go (and you might be on the limiter, as well!). If you have to look around and wonder when the other guy is going to stage................? could throw off your game, could hurt the engine, you might even slack off the brake or line-loc and roll backward or forward out of the beams.

7 seconds may sound quick, but it's an eternity. And most et brackets are set up with an even longer count. So if your opponet goes in and lights both lights, don't feel rushed. Just do your normal deal.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The procedure you employ is called "courtesy staging", waiting until both lanes have pre-staged before advancing to stage. In the Sport Compact series, this is actually enforced, and you will see the starter occasionally back someone out who has lit both lights before the other lane pre-stages. Even when not enforced, it is proper etiquette. It also makes sense. Once you've lit the stage light, you're pumped and ready to go (and you might be on the limiter, as well!). If you have to look around and wonder when the other guy is going to stage................? could throw off your game, could hurt the engine, you might even slack off the brake or line-loc and roll backward or forward out of the beams.

7 seconds may sound quick, but it's an eternity. And most et brackets are set up with an even longer count. So if your opponet goes in and lights both lights, don't feel rushed. Just do your normal deal.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah but it seems to me when the first person fully stages and then you go to stage the lights drop quick and you basically had no prep time at all like the other guy. IMO

 

For sure, if you're the last guy in to stage, once that "fourth" bulb is lit the tree drops in about a second. If you're not using a rev limiter and line loc and have to "find" your launch rpm, etc., then staging last can be tough.

 

I hope this displacement calculator works. Even for arguements sake you cannot get a 2.4 liter honda (mopar runs a 2.4). You can take the maximum bore you can achive on a sleeved b series, 87mm. Then custom make a 101mm crank (will it even fit?) and you just squeak by wth a 2401cc's.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by old guy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For sure, if you're the last guy in to stage, once that "fourth" bulb is lit the tree drops in about a second. If you're not using a rev limiter and line loc and have to "find" your launch rpm, etc., then staging last can be tough.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you again Jim...that's been my issue, I'll eventually have a limiter for launch which will make this a non issue.

 

I've exploded 2 trannys from this. Being the last to stage and no 2 step, I had to "flash" the rpms and launch from basiccally WOT.

But now running a Kaaz, the diff strength in not a issue, for now!!!