NAH2B

how do you figure 100k on top of what the 10 sec guys are already running?

you guys would need to pick up 1 sec to be competitive in pro allmotor, especially w/ the shortage of pro cars out there.

if it costs you 100k to pick up 1 sec you may as well quit now

im not sying it would be cheap, but come on.....


and no theres not many pro races now that sanctions have folded. but why do you think that is, look at the sport.....

i wouldnt be surprised if BOTI doesnt come back to the east next season.

lets say those of you who are running 10's in our class now were to move into pro allmotor right now w/ your current setups. not only would that get new guys interested in running the street class but it would change the pro class as well.

and like you said Marc, the fastest car doesnt always win, so you guys cant keep using that excuse because you have just as much chance winning the pro class as a slower guys has winning our class.

look at Norris blew his **** up at mir....that was open for the taking. so just like you said, people just need to fill up the class.

i say we fill up street and pro allmotor, otherwise guess what.....the car counts will remain how they have been and this area of the sport WILL NOT grow plain and simple.

Bserious

Pretty much sums it up. :thumbsup:, and pretty much goes for SFWD cars as well. With the caliber of street cars being built, it's not 100K difference, much much closer.

By not filling above and looking to create below further puts the street class as pedestal point of import front wheel drive drag racing, that and along with the 'high-level' sponsorships within the sportsman class.

NAH2B

exactly, and if things continue on this way there will be no more sport.

its too expensive to compete in these "street" classes nowadays. the few who can do it will continue on and the others will slowly dissapear.

who the hell wants to build a pro chassis when you can hang out in the street class sucking up all the payouts and sitting on top like the big dog laying around on the porch.....

everyone knows damn well allmotor street driven honda's dont run 10's, c'mon

thats exactly what i meant when i said sucking the life out of our grassroots class and Jake got so offended by it.

its true and it will continue to contribute to the sports decline like a cancer.

the sponsors also need to use there $$ to reward guys who want to build pro setups instead of contributing to already out of hand street class's.

if we could get the street class back to a street class, there would be no need for another class.

i would gladly make a deal w/ all these 10 sec street allmotor guys....

if you guys would be willing to run pro allmotor next year i will do the same. sure we wont be on top, but the pro class has like 2 cars in it and they do break.

lets give the average street racing guys a chance to get their foot in the door and come out and do some real racing at the track. we could fill the street class and probably have a full field in the pro class.

who knows, maybe sponsors would take notice and start making offers to us slower guys in the pro class......

lets help get the sport back to what it was long ago instead of being selfish and continuing on down the same road.

MARC P

Have you guys ever priced a pro car. My current chassis and motor is worthles in the pro class.
Full tube chassis race cars aren't cheap, the pro motor setup by itself is 20k.

I would love to go pro but to run a full year is another 50 plus and that's if you don't blow a motor.


Marc P

NAH2B

so why not run your current setup in pro allmotor?

like you said, the fastest cars dont always win.

you have just as much chance winning pro allmotor as the average daily driver does of winning our class.

OmegaDynamics

Do you think before you post?

You think people should step up from being a top of the street class, which they have already spend $$$ and years working toward and to get slaughtered in prostock just for the good of the sport?

Not to mention what pro classes events are there? 5 events all year spread out over the entire country, so they should step up, race less, lose more, sounds like a frigging brilliant plan.

STFU and race, win or lose and have fun.

jlude90

I'd be willing to run in that class. I don't see how feasible it would be for me to make many events though. I'm in Tampa and depending on how good of a position I'm in I could make just about any track in FL and possibly some near the border, but I'm just one person. I think you'd need alot of support local to the event. I was going to go to BOTI when it was at gainesville, and IFO as well, but the car was down. As it sits right now I'm most likely in the 14s and i hope to hit 13s, 12s are still undecided at this point, but with a limiting chassis and engine setup, I'm definitely hosed competing with the K cars, and even similar civics with hot H motors. But honestly I'd run in the sportsman class just to lose.

Whats the rule on tires?

MrParks

id say limit the use of mfg fuels to the ones that acually care about your business. jmo

NAH2B

so what have they spent years and $$ working towards???? to dominate a street class for the rest of their lives lol

do YOU think before you post?


yeah there are a limited # of pro events, but why do you think that is??

you and everyone else keeps saying shup up and race....well incase you have been living under a rock, people arent stepping and racing. and why would they want to when you have to have a 10 sec honda to compete in the street allmotor class

if guys dont want to step up then maybe they should step down for the good of the sport. why not save some of that $$ you were speaking of and throw a smaller/slower setup together and get the street class back to what it should be so more guys will come race.

either step up or step down but do something other than what obviously isnt working

ALLMODA

i think this class would have been a good idea a couple of years ago and not,cant compair a sportsman car to an all motor car and it dosnt make sense to take away potental cars away from street all motor now..

i personaly have run a pure street car that i drove on the street whenever i want and have run11.59@116mph in this so called "allmotor daily driver set up" and by the way it sounds it would it will do very good in this class but i would much rather race in street all motor with the likes of Marc,Tim,Jake,Loan it just make's it more fun..

i came all the way from Canada last year with a stock motor with bolt on's to race at outlaw shootout in all motor class,had the time of my life and i would do it again...if someone truly loves racing then they will race in whatever class regardless if there not the fastest....

just my .02 cents...

AllMtrRex

I agree street car's do not run 10's. It takes more money than the average joe makes a year to be competitive. That's shitty and the sport will die off like it has been for years.

Redegk24

I am running all-motor IFO and I drive the car to the race (300-450 miles 1 way) I have won 1, second in another and plan on 3-4 more races this fall. To hot in summer to drive with-out a/c. I do run a K -frank with K-2 cams. no cage

jay

vlkslvr

While I can understand and appreciate your intent I don't think adding another class is the way to go.

As it stands now the street allmotor class isn't full at most events, creating another class is likely to pull even more cars away into the "slower" class so they can be more competitive. This would essentially have the current street class about as empty as the "pro" allmotor class is these days, and I don't think any of us want to see that.

Besides you have even said it yourself, the "new" class would be an 11/12 second class which really isn't that far off the majority of the current street class times which on average seem to be 11.0-11.5 this year. Yes there are a few select cars that run consistent 10s, but it's a small minority of this class running those times. It would be entirely possible, even at an event with a full field to quailify for the current class with a true street driven car that runs in the 11.7-11.9 range, which is exactly what your proposed class would end up running.

I think instead of encouraging yet another class to be created we should promote the current street all motor and Street Stock classes and once we start getting consistent full fields in both we can turn around and maybe consider adding another class.

Street Stock is a great entry level heads up class, and the no swap rule really helps with the $$ aspect for most people. Yes on occasion cars in this class have run 11's and very low 12's but in reality it's a 12.8-13.5 class and most of the cars in it are actually driven on the street. If someone was really interested in becoming a heads up all motor racer and didn't want to step up to the current street class performance level this is the perfect class.

You can't please everyone I know but I really think promotion of the current classes is a much better solution than adding additonal complexity to the class structure.

ohsnapzafingcu

iTrader: (2)

here's a suggestion if you want to make sure everyone runs 93 oct.

have everyone get their car tech'ed with fuel tank almost empty and fill everyone's tank up with the same amount of fuel.. that way if they tune for 5 gallons of 93 octane mixed with 1 gallon of 101 it won't be the same as 1 gallon of 101 with 10 gallons of 93..

it might be tough to do, but that's the only way i see it could happen maybe?

just a suggestion

NAH2B

you have some good points however the idea of filling the fields under the current circumstances just hasnt worked nor will it work in the future because of the cost to compete nowadays.

i agree w/ you a new class isnt the best answer and if we can get the majority of the current racers on the same page and willing to help the sport less selfishly we wont need a new class.

this discussion has actually taken a turn from adding a new class to improving what we already have which i believe is a great idea. sure the top dogs wont want to hear it but im gonna discuss it anyway.

and dont think im a slower guy complaining about the quick guys dominating. im one of these quick guys myself. i havent gone 10's but i run 11.0s and will run well into the 10's later this season.

im gonna start another thread for both the street allmotor class and the spwd class as it seems there has been interest in discussing that class as well. the new thread will be to discuss/debate the need for faster drivers to step up and move on to keep the street class's for actuall street cars. becuase it really is the best idea to get things back to the way they used to be when you could throw a lsvtec swap together w/ some bolt-ons and drive the **** out of it then bolt some slicks on and compete at the events.

MARC P

Randy- You seem to have great intentions, but what about those people who just love to race and go as fast as possible to the rules that are there. I myself dont have the funds to build a whole new car to run a pro class (my current chassis will not go 9's with out another 25K and would be stuck in the high 9's).

I myself look for every chance to help anyone that ask about the class to help them make events and enjoy the racing. Spend all the effort you are now helping others and promoting sport compact racing itself. You keep saying that we will never have full fields again, that negative talk is what kills us now. Down here in my neck of the woods, every event the car counts keep going up, so don't tell me we will never have full fields (also wasn't honda day packed?).


Marc P

Kevin

Here's my take on it as someone who's been around different forms of racing all of my life.

You can't have a bunch of empty classes and expect anything to grow. The classes that are there need time to grow. If you wanna race and be competitive, build your car as close to the edge of the rules that you can and/or your budget allows and put time into the setup. Over time you will improve and move up in the class. If the current participants of a class feel that a certain team is running away with the class unfairly then you can come together and organize rule changes/weight limits to bring the cars closer together.

If teams are using the rules as an excuse not to race then they probably don't really have it in em anyways and there's no amount of changes that are gonna remedy that.

E-Town4229

if you have a swapped car youre already taking steps to progress. participating in the class doesnt require dropping $20k+ off the bat or needing to have a competitive car. just come out and have fun. progress the car at your pace. the fastest people in the class werent always the fastest. before loan and tim there was gordon mack, max ha, the chan brothers, richie gibson, and countless others that were way ahead of the pack. point is give it time and most of the pack will catch up. why would you want to chase the top contenders out? i would look at that as motivation to get faster.
norris is usually faster than most of the pro level cars he competes with these days, with that logic should he bump up into hot rod and give everyone else a chance?
-Roger

K20Ahondas

100k? Thats alittle high. Let say you take a unibody EG and make it a Pro car. Probably drop some weight, add some bars, change the rear end out. Under 20k. We built my ALL motor back half integra for under 25k back in 2002. Saul drove it years later making 290ish whp and it ran 9.9. Full tube cars pricing. Time will tell.

LS AzZkIkr

Wow this is one thing that I have been waiting for. NAH2B, I cannot agree with you more. The '"street class" is not as "street" as the

name suggest's. Now I remember when you could drive your car to the track and kick *** in a 12 second car and go home.

Now people are putting more money in there "street" cars than I make in a year! No disrespect to the people who dominate the

classes at all. I love the numbers that honda's are running now and the insane power levels but there is no point in me running and be

beaten by several seconds.

AllMoToRB18c

Randy I dont even know what to say at this point. After readsing this thread I have so much on my mind i doubt I will get it all out in this post.
I dont think it is right you are pretty much saying that Loan and I are ruining the sport and sucking the life out of it and that we should step up to pro because we run 10s everytime we race. Yea I know you didnt say our names but who the hell else would you be talking about? I dont think another class is what we need at all.For all of you slower true street cars out there, there is plenty of racing for you. You can either run brackets just like every other racer started out in or you can run street stock if you cars fit the rules. Or if you dont like those choices you can run Quick 16.Plenty of options for you. Some of your negative comment and not only ones in this thread is what is killing the sport. Not coming to a race because music is played too loud for your liking is whats killing the sport. Not coming to a race because you feel the tracks staff isnt up to par is whats killing the sport. Just for your info we need top dogs in the class because thats what motivates ppl. Getting my *** handed to me everytime I raced Loan(I still get it handed to me) is what makes me try harder and go faster. So I hope im giving that same motivation to other racers instead of them crying and saying its not fair he's too fast I want my own class. I have a ton more to say but I will let you respond first.

Mike@CCT

What about allowing swaps in the street stock class. Stock engines runs slicks (how it is now), B series run drag radials, H and K run street tires. Possibility or no? I havent thought it through completely but it just popped into my head. lol.

vlkslvr

There are a couple of problems I see with this. The most important being Radials are very hard on parts in most cases. In a FWD application the possibility of wheel hop is greatly increased with radials over slicks and wheel hop just absolutely destroys drivetrain parts.

Secondly Brian Fisher already proved Drag radials can still lay down killer times when he ran 11.3-11.4's back in 06 in NHRA street stock on a BFG DR.

That's almost 2 seconds faster than even the "quick" Street Stock cars that are showing up to the east coast BOTI/IMSTAR/World Cup event.

Mike@CCT

Was he K or B series back then?

And as far as destroying parts, it may take some trial and error, but there should be a way to figure out how to make those tires work without tearing stuff up. Maybe by not running huge 265/70/15s or whatever they run, lol. Do BFG 205s break alot of parts? Maybe a smaller tire and not launching at 9500 rpm, traction bars, good suspsension, good mounts, etc. will help out. But thats beside the point here.

I was just suggesting a way to expand the street stock class to a more broad class to allow swaps by regulating it through tires.
Im sure there are other ways to regulate it, but it was just an idea.

MARC P

Brian Fisher was running a K and the biggest tire you could run is a 225/50/15.