C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
11-03-2009, 12:28 PM
#51
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
C10 is non leaded and non oxygenated. Also as you stated only an octane rating of 104 by which that is the research rating. The motor octane is only 96.
C10 was designed for certain types of spec class racing.
My point is there is more to fuel then octane ratings.
C10 was designed for certain types of spec class racing.
My point is there is more to fuel then octane ratings.
11-03-2009, 12:45 PM
#53
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
what? did you not read what I wrote a few posts ago or do you not agree with it? The ability of fuel to resist detonation is a function of more than just that of its octane rating.
11-03-2009, 12:54 PM
#55
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
I read it, just not sure what to make of it. lol I'm not saying it's wrong, but i'm not buying it.
Torco's fuels are almost exactly opposite of what you're saying. The lowest octanes have the highest SG and the SG gets lower as the fuel gets 'better' and octane increases.
http://torcoracefuel.net/2-docs/torco-specs-2009.jpg
The octane racing IS the fuels ability to resist detonation, that's how the number is generated.
Maybe we're confusing things here. A fuel has 2 jobs, make power and resist detonation.
SG has no affect on a fuels ability to resist detonation. There may be things in the fuel that have a part in making the octane rating what it is, and they will have an affect on the SG of the fuel, but you can't look at SG and say anything about the fuel based on it.
Torco's fuels are almost exactly opposite of what you're saying. The lowest octanes have the highest SG and the SG gets lower as the fuel gets 'better' and octane increases.
http://torcoracefuel.net/2-docs/torco-specs-2009.jpg
The octane racing IS the fuels ability to resist detonation, that's how the number is generated.
Maybe we're confusing things here. A fuel has 2 jobs, make power and resist detonation.
SG has no affect on a fuels ability to resist detonation. There may be things in the fuel that have a part in making the octane rating what it is, and they will have an affect on the SG of the fuel, but you can't look at SG and say anything about the fuel based on it.
11-03-2009, 01:00 PM
#56
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
may i ask a stupid question just for clarification?
is it truly resistence to detonation or combustion in general? i was taught in school that the higher the octane the harder it was to combust. and with that, came higher resistence to detonation.
is it truly resistence to detonation or combustion in general? i was taught in school that the higher the octane the harder it was to combust. and with that, came higher resistence to detonation.
11-03-2009, 01:15 PM
#58
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
there is motor octane, research octane, and effective octane. For example c16 has higher motor octane than q16 (1 point), but because of the lower specific gravity of q16 and it's ability to have/need higher flows for same a/f the effective octane is nearly 8 points higher than c16.
11-03-2009, 01:18 PM
#59
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
The bigger part in Q having more knock resistance than C16 is the fact that stoich for Q is 13.4:1 and C is 14.7:1. You actually use more fuel with Q.
11-03-2009, 01:26 PM
#61
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
Depends what you're doing with it.
Octane wise, it's generally not beneficial to go with a lot more than you need.
As far as Sonoco vs. VP, no idea. VP is good stuff and it's proven. If you want to spend a bunch of time on a dyno, you can try and see which works better. If you want to enjoy your car, just stick with VP.
Octane wise, it's generally not beneficial to go with a lot more than you need.
As far as Sonoco vs. VP, no idea. VP is good stuff and it's proven. If you want to spend a bunch of time on a dyno, you can try and see which works better. If you want to enjoy your car, just stick with VP.
11-03-2009, 01:53 PM
#63
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
Like I said previously there is more to a fuel then just the octane rating that makes it resist detonation..
You have burn speed, btu output along with the fuels cooling effect.
The sg is important as I stated earlier and will have a falling effect over a lighter fuel.
Tony, remember that conversation we had some time ago about the mj wars with ignition. It was called "dont be fooled by the mj wars". Well dont be fooled by the octane wars lol.
You have burn speed, btu output along with the fuels cooling effect.
The sg is important as I stated earlier and will have a falling effect over a lighter fuel.
Tony, remember that conversation we had some time ago about the mj wars with ignition. It was called "dont be fooled by the mj wars". Well dont be fooled by the octane wars lol.
11-03-2009, 02:20 PM
#64
Honda-Tech Member
Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
If the heavier fuel really falls and that makes it work better, would the opposite be true if an engine was run upside down?
11-03-2009, 02:57 PM
#66
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
I track tuned my car on Q16 and one weekend I could not get any and had to use C16 and it was rich. Had to pull about 6% fuel out for it to work. I also after the track I will drain what I can out and use 93 on the street. I have 2 different tune ups that I switch between. So there is a difference for sure.
11-03-2009, 02:58 PM
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11-03-2009, 03:17 PM
#68
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
would that be legal in sfwd or outlaw? def gonna need a dry sump system for a setup like that so i guess not .ya might want to ask pepe loco or one of them that put their cars on the roof often maybe ya get lucky and they where dataloggin
11-03-2009, 04:49 PM
#69
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
Depends what you're doing with it.
Octane wise, it's generally not beneficial to go with a lot more than you need.
As far as Sonoco vs. VP, no idea. VP is good stuff and it's proven. If you want to spend a bunch of time on a dyno, you can try and see which works better. If you want to enjoy your car, just stick with VP.
Octane wise, it's generally not beneficial to go with a lot more than you need.
As far as Sonoco vs. VP, no idea. VP is good stuff and it's proven. If you want to spend a bunch of time on a dyno, you can try and see which works better. If you want to enjoy your car, just stick with VP.
11-03-2009, 05:37 PM
#70
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
In my experience the SG to me has always been a weight number and the only thing i would use it for was to determine if i would be using more or less fuel to get to a certain air/fuel ratio...
It doesn't relate to knock or resistance to knock in any way.
It doesn't relate to knock or resistance to knock in any way.
11-03-2009, 06:25 PM
#71
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11-03-2009, 07:31 PM
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
Are you ****ing with me or do you want to see if I know the answer? Either way. Here is my answer to your question.
Fuels that have a higher specific gravity number have a higher resistance to detonation.
Import has a sg of .744 and is oxygenated, q16 has a sg of .716 an is oxygenated. C16 is not oxygenated and has an sg of .735. Now c23 is not oxygenated and has an sg of .713. C23 is the lightest of the group in question and is also not oxygenated. I am in no way saying that c23 is a bad fuel but why would you choose c23 over c16? Based solely on the octane rating?
The reason for this is that the fuel will i guess you could say "fall" faster, the faster the fuel falls the quicker the fuel gets away from largest concentration of heat which is the the top of the cylinder or other wise known as the combustion chamber.
In turn cold is denser than hot air so it falls where hot air rises.
Fuels that have a higher specific gravity number have a higher resistance to detonation.
Import has a sg of .744 and is oxygenated, q16 has a sg of .716 an is oxygenated. C16 is not oxygenated and has an sg of .735. Now c23 is not oxygenated and has an sg of .713. C23 is the lightest of the group in question and is also not oxygenated. I am in no way saying that c23 is a bad fuel but why would you choose c23 over c16? Based solely on the octane rating?
The reason for this is that the fuel will i guess you could say "fall" faster, the faster the fuel falls the quicker the fuel gets away from largest concentration of heat which is the the top of the cylinder or other wise known as the combustion chamber.
In turn cold is denser than hot air so it falls where hot air rises.
11-03-2009, 08:26 PM
#73
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
With C23 having a SG of .71 and typical pump gas with 10% ethanol having a SG of .75 which would be the better choice for a high rpm nitrous or turbocharged engine?
11-04-2009, 07:16 AM
#74
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
That is my understanding. Octane = the measure of how well the fuel resists detonation.
I know some people think that burn speed is the only thing that effects octane but regardless what helps resist detonation (atomization,vaporation, specific gravity, burn speed,color) woulndt it effect the octane number?
Unless you tell me in the real world where engines turn 11,0000 rpm instead of 900rpm those other factors make more of a difference than the octane number shows.
11-04-2009, 08:23 AM
#75
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Re: C16 vs. Q16 vs. VP Import?
Like I said before octane is indeed a measure of a fuel's ability to resist detonation, however like miller said there are other factors involved which the MON/RON don't take into account which is why there is something called "effective octane"