It seems to me that the race scene is switching back to grass roots where the lower funded teams might make a come back. I think the sport compact races will be different next year. There are many rumors that GM will have a very limited role next year, which I believe is better for the sport. I think that many teams stepped back because they felt they could not compete with the money there. So without GM, Ford, Mopar, & Saturn money, I think people will bring out there cars again that have been sitting. I do think that racing will be more localized with less people willing to travel because of the fuel prices. It is nice to see people still building cars and anxious to race them. I think the classes of the future will be all motor, T4/SFWD and the other more affordable classes. What do you think? I would like to get some opinions here.

 

i think power street is going to be off the chain next year...thanks to jim hucks and what he has done. people will really be able to afford to run in that class.

 

I pulled back my CRX entry for Hot Rod/P4C because of the speed they were going, and i didn't care for the direction of the class. The unibody cars, should NOT be outrunning the tube-chassis cars. Limit tire sizes or something more than turbos, keep them slower.

But anyway, i can rant for a looong time on issues, but i won't I just hope that the future of the sport continues to be great, and that we continue to have organizations like NHRA and NDRA standing up and giving us a place to race, and a series to race in.

I'm looking forward to next season and all that it may hold. There will be some great competition in all the classes, and some very cool cars coming out of the woodwork. The sportsman classes are getting faster and faster, and still staying reasonable, and the sport will continue to grow. It had a 'growing spurt' of sorts, and i don't think it was ready for that kind of growth that fast.

It took NHRA 50 years to be as popular as it is today... i won't be surprised if it takes import racing at least as long to secure a good foothold. Wait until the Sport Compact fans are the ones with all the big money and corporate jobs, and are the ones directing funds, and owning major teams...

 

Why are there only Floridians in this thread?

 

I think the sport is gonna have to take a step backward before it can go forward. You are right that many guys never even got their cars out of the garage because they knew it wasnt competitive. About the only action they saw was an occasional test n tune.

 

This has been coming for a while now. The big $$$ companies that jumped in before are bailing because their cars and products are not being bought by most of the sport compact car community. Their brands just were not accepted. I myself think that it could be for the better of the sport as alot more home grown racers will be back out to compete.

 

Well I said it a year ago and I will now. T4/SFW need to be capped also, More rules are needed in that class now. Early this year it was the best thing that most average racers can compete in. Now they are in HR speed and et and starting to go out of the sportman reach and budget. It happened to HR and it will Happen to T4. Then what. Then it will be Power street next. Jim is just the start. By mid season next year He might be at 10.50.

 

Well.... i thik regardless if GM is here or not. they already have the product on the table and the people already have the cars running what they are running now. so even if GM leaves next year Gary's car will run what it did this year. And Ron Lummus wasn't even backed by GM so whats there to complain about.I feel that if everyone that was building cars spent as much time working on there car to compete instead of crying because they couldn't compete.there would have been an awesome turn out at alot more races. You have to understand that the sanctioning bodies can't changes rules if they can't see what cars are out there and what types of times they were running. so if we had 20 cars running 10.0's and 10 cars that were running 8.90's.I'm sure they would put some rules on the faster cars so it could be more even.But then you got the cry babies on here that say that its wrong to slow down the ones that are faster and that everyone else should step up.Well.......not everyone has the money to "step up" but still has the passion to be out here racing in a head up pro class on a limited budget.


Lets take the E-town race Fall Nats Modified class that just passed. I have to admit that NHRA really made a good choice on the rules with the 6 cylinder cars.
EVERYONE!!!! that raced in the modified class at ETOWN had an awesome chance of winning. I think for once i seen an import race where the cars where actually side by side most of the way down the track.
You also have to realize that the sanctioning bodies can lift the rules also once they see tat everyone is getting faster in a certain class. but they can't se that if only 3-5 cars are only coming to the races.

Thats why we need everyone out there to finish building your cars and come to the race and run your car.Stop crying about if you have a chance to win or not.it seems like everyone has the mentality that they are gonna dominate a class when they build their car at first and then a car in their class breaks a record and people get discouraged and stop building their projects. Drag racing is 50/50....So come out and take your chances.


sorry about the illiterate grammered rant...lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo Ric &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> It happened to HR and it will Happen to T4. Then what. Then it will be Power street next. Jim is just the start. By mid season next year He might be at 10.50. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree 100%. T4 is 99.9% out of reach for most of us. Jim Owns PW/S and will continue to dominate. The way GSC is going they may Completly rule SFWD next year so, whats left?

Phil

 

There is a difference between the Hotrod class and T4/SFWD though. Hotrod is dominated by big dollar teams right now with the exception of Shepard, but if you look at all the quick T4/SFWD cars that are running the numbers...well they are out of pocket racers getting it done with knowledge and experience, not necessarily money, or should I say money from any sponsors. Sure, they have some product sponsorship, but the majority of the money comes from a normal 9-5 day job combined with alot of hard work and experience. In reality it is very possible to be competitive in the T4/SFWD classes for the average "JOE". I believe James/John from GSC, Ballard, Hunt, Keller, Joe, Ivey, etc. would all agree.

Hopefully I explained it in a way that makes sense and gives more drive and determination for those of you who have shyed away from building a car for these Sportsman classes, because I believe its by far the best class from a competition/competitor standpoint and hopefully will continue.

 

1) All we really need as racers is a lucrative Contingency Program at the regional level. Once you get to Pro, its on you to come up with the additional funds.

In SCCA Chrysler would pay for basically showing up. That should be the way it is for everybody.

Increasing payout down to 3rd and 4th place drivers.

2) We need 3 series:

- NDRA East Coast and some of the midwest
- Battle of the Imports West Coast and some of the midwest
- NHRA National Touring Series, including two events in Canada.

3) Increase min weight of all unit-body classes.

Hot Rod - Increase Weight, One Power Adder, Reduce Turbo Inlet and Tire Size (limit about 800hp)
SFWD - Status Quo (limit about 600hp)
SRWD/AWD - Even smaller Turbo Inlet on 6 cyl cars, Smaller Tire also (limit about 600hp)

Tube Chassis Only in All Motor, Pro Import and Pro FWD. Everybody else Unitbody

Return Hot Rod to using OEM looking sheet metal or one-piece front ends.

*Pro Classes Only*

Put a cap on chassis eligibility in All FWD classes. Cut off should be 1995 model year.

Bonus Program for all cars less than 3 years old

Sorry but OEM's won't support you if you continue to run 10-15 year old cars, just ask anybody running a major series. Compact shouldn't be exempt from it, increase your racing budget or step down in class, just that simple...

Increase payouts for all classes that earn less than Pro Import and Payout for Quick 16 or Brackets should be at least $700 (to win), along with an increase for Street Stock to $700.

Also increase Semi final payouts.

All these changes will SAVE compact racing as you currently know it.

 

T4 is a fast class no matter which way you look at it.....but the guys going fast in the class are people who have been doing it for years. there are plenty of cars that were out this year that were making more power than jasons coupe, brians crx, and john/james hatch.

what i like most about T4 is that its not about making the most power you can....hell, i think the power some of the guys in the class are making is actually hurting them. and if you look at the spfwd rules running full exhaust, 2400 lbs, and 24.5 inch tire...i dont kknow what you can really do to try to slow the class down unless you put a turbo restriction in effect. brian and john/james arnt running nearly as big of a turbo as some other cars in the class.

every class usually has 1 car that dominates, which can be frustrating. T4 stepped it up towards the end of the season. for a while there Matt K. seemed to have every race locked up...then everybody else stepped it up and were running right there with him. john and james droped damn near a full second off of their time with some tweaking and seat time.....brians crx is an awesome example, very simple yet was going consistant 9.7's.

seat time is key i think. sometimes what should be a close race isnt close at all just from the tree alone. i know i have timeslips in eliminates where i'd cut a .1xx light against a 1.1 light. i think people build a car around the rules, make a ton of power, go out to the track expecting to run 9's and go 11's. they get frustrated, try to make more power, break parts, run out of money, and get frustrated and give up.

i dont think its coincidence that the top guys in the class have all been doing it for years. my car was built with pretty much all used parts....yes that did cause me some issues for a while mid season, but for the power my car was making...or wasnt making i should say...i was still able to qualify in the top half of the field.

i'll admit im a little worried to see what happens next year. we are in teh mid 9's right now....hell ivey went a 9.4. low nines or even 8's will change things a lot for the budged racers. im not sure if a 26 inch tire will alow for that in a FWD car though, i guess time will tell.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dj4monie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Put a cap on chassis eligibility in All FWD classes. Cut off should be 1995 model year.

Bonus Program for all cars less than 3 years old

Sorry but OEM's won't support you if you continue to run 10-15 year old cars, just ask anybody running a major series. Compact shouldn't be exempt from it, increase your racing budget or step down in class, just that simple...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think thats a good idea for the Pro classes, but not for sportsman (SFWD, SRWD, Streetstock and similar classes in NDRA) classes. I don't think most people in these classes can afford to build a new car every 3-5 years. Some people on here have been working on their project car for that long. Hell people in the NHRA sportsman classes are running 40+ year old cars.

Also, I'm curious as to why people think GM's involvement decreasing is a good thing. Major OEM support is bad? Just because its an American manufacturer and they did very well doesn't mean its bad. I think it sucks that they've cut down their involvement.

 

No rant man your totally right...

This is a rant...

Everybody here complains that Honda won't support Gary Gardella or Kenny Tran.

Does Chevy support somebody running a '95 Monte Carlo body in NASCAR? On top of not being very competitive, NASCAR along with other racing series have CAPS on how long you can use one chassis. That's basically there so one chassis/OEM doesn't dominate for a long time turning off other competitors and OEM's from partisapating.

There's already a built-in bias towards American Hardware anyway on the "import" side of the compact community.

If you want a Honda only series, start one, get sponsors and support it.

Hey the VW guys have their own events, but they want to compete with us too because its always more fun to show how well your car does vs different brands.

Mopar was racing and supporting FWD cars in NHRA Sportsman classes back when the best a Honda could do was MAYBE high 15's. So you guys didn't start compact or even FWD racing in this country.

In a sport based on how a brand performs in competition, its important for new life and blood be inserted into the sport on a regular basis for it to grow.

Hondas have such a jump on everybody else, that those with newer compacts don't feel they can be competitive, so they stay home and nobody wants to run brackets.

In general, american and even to some extent german made compacts have to search for respect not only on the racetrack but in the media as well. Since everybody believes what they see and hear and everybody in general is a follower and not a leader you got 10,000 people running Hondas, buttin heads with each other and not even trying to reach out to get anybody else involved.

That means stepping from beyond the known and into the unknown... Taking chances, taking risk.

Why did it have to take GM or Toyota to dangle a carrot in front of Hunt, Kubo, Gardella or Rado to swtich??? How come most of you are so resitant to changing?

It can't be because Hondas are more reliable, nothing is reliable once you double and trippled the output...

I can't be because parts are cheaper. I bet Steve Lockett has spent alot less between his Storm and Neon than most of you have spent on your Civics and CRX's and he's whopped your **** more than once.

Scott Mohler dominated NIRA Comp 4 out of his own pocket basically being a better driver. His Neon has always been overweight and gear limited, yet he's managed to win an NIRA, IDRC and NHRA championship in a Dodge Neon.

So what does that say for your "career" choice for a racing car?

I'm not anti-Honda one bit, just don't complain when your sport is dying because you refuse to give back.

Giving back includes -

Buying newer cars or switching brands all together.

Some of you guys are very smart and could make just about anything fast. Why not give back to the sport and support building something else than yet another Honda whatever for racing. Or at least let's not hear about yet another crx or eg civic being built because of its very low curb weight.

 

There some SRT-4's that could run with Hucks there just too busy being Dyno Queens or scared of breaking their daily driver.

 

i think the problem with that class is that everybody who is making the power that jim is making is running T4. once again...he's been on the radials for a while and got to know them. most people probably go out, try to run on them once, get frustrated and go back to slicks. i thought about playing around in that class a little bit since i was down on power....but T4 is more for me

 

Dave -

I meant Pro only because there is no way you could do that on a regional/sportsman level. I agree some people have own the same car at least 5 years if not longer.

Joe -

Seat time is key. Anybody taking it seriously should be out there running laps. You won't learn anything always making changes to your car trying to keep up with the jones.

Everybody complained about the reduction in tire sizes in SFWD and going back to air-to-air intercoolers. The people at the top just changed and went even faster.

Sport Compact Racing even in heyday only a couple of years ago is far from perfect... Changes need to be made and those that run these races need to stop looking at the allmighty dollar and give back.

 

Well I agree that the focal point has been grass roots from the organization,however you still need the pro catagory cars for the show.Everthing goes hand & hand.As far as other manufactures most will still be in the game just not really playin in it.All an all they are still a threat out there and can run the numbers.There defently will not be a decrese in domestic car count I think it will go up as parts&tech become more available.

 

I'd run that class -

It cost about the same to build a 400hp car on radials, than it does to build 250hp car on radials.

Joe you should hit me up on Yahoo - same screen name

 

Think we have all heard this at a test and tune—run what ya brung and hope you brung enough, theres got to be a winner and, if someone works hard and builds a car above the rest why should that person be penalized. Look what happen with Paul Effantis he got so tired of the rule changes hes out for the remained of the season-sure theres more to it but rule changes had a lot to do with it. And every year theres some, this will be the best class ever discussion, now its PS—well there’s a ton of DSM’s running 9 sec passes that could easily fit in that category—so think of your complaints now. Set the rules in the off season so people can build to that and leave them. If someone dominates someone dominates—thats what racing is a competition if you want it totally fair and level they got this thing called bracket racing (I call it hell). Bottom line build a car and run it—don’t build a car cause you think your going to be ultra pimp and dominate some class and then hot models and sponcers will throw money at you. Like the commercials say on TV Love or Money which one are you.

 

One thing i kinda disagree with is the updating of cars every certain years.i know NHRA powerade does it.But as faras us import guys i think its already hard enough to try and spend a **** load of money on a virtually brand new car just to gut it out and tear it up.If you price a 3 year old used car(2002) you looking to spend a minimum of $8,000 depending what car you buy.Then you gotta spend more money to make it a race car.

I do see it plausable for doing it in PRO RWD since most cars are full tube chassis and its easiar to swap bodies to a chassis.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Corey G &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Think we have all heard this at a test and tune—run what ya brung and hope you brung enough, theres got to be a winner and, if someone works hard and builds a car above the rest why should that person be penalized. Look what happen with Paul Effantis he got so tired of the rule changes hes out for the remained of the season-sure theres more to it but rule changes had a lot to do with it. And every year theres some, this will be the best class ever discussion, now its PS—well there’s a ton of DSM’s running 9 sec passes that could easily fit in that category—so think of your complaints now. Set the rules in the off season so people can build to that and leave them. If someone dominates someone dominates—thats what racing is a competition if you want it totally fair and level they got this thing called bracket racing (I call it hell). Bottom line build a car and run it—don’t build a car cause you think your going to be ultra pimp and dominate some class and then hot models and sponcers will throw money at you. Like the commercials say on TV Love or Money which one are you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Be honest with yourself.....how fun is it to watch the same car win every race every weekend.As a fan...it sux cause then they would say why spend the money to go to a race when you already know who is gonna win in each event.

thats like having a 1 runner in a 40yd dash using steriods and dominating every track event(until he got caught) but do you think that is fair for all the other track athletes. Thats when rules have to come into play to make it a level playing feild and make it interesting for everyone else.

I'm sure everyone that races works their butt off to make their car as fast as "they can". mentally and financially. so i saw its only fair to make it as even as possible.

Everyone says that "people need to step up"....well why can't the faster guys "step up " to the next fastest class if they are going so much faster than everyone else in a class. Thats not how i feel but just saying.

 

Well that's if your thinking in Honda terms....

A 2002 Neon can be coverted to an SRT-4 for about $8,000 total.

That would be about $4,000 for a mint condition '02 SE Neon and about $3500-4000 for a complete '04 donor.

I saw a '04 Focus ZX3 (2.3L Duratec) at a yard they would sell to me for $2,000. If your intentions are not to return it to the road, you don't have to spend money on air bags or anything like that to make the car street legal again, just the basics.

Either of those could be the basis for a competitive SFWD car.

There's already a 11 second full bodied, full interior, stereo system and street driven, automatic transmission Focus that runs the old Zetec motor, turbocharged, no nitrous.

http://www.focus-power.com/view.php?showme=Home

You already know what the Duratec can do considering its the same powerplant that the Bergenholtz' use in both Mazda 3/6.

It doesn't cost as much to change as you might think. Like I said Steve Lockett went from road racing his Geo Storm, to converting it to Isuzu Impluse, then AWD, back to FWD and then finall parked it and bought a Neon with a salvage title. He's built it with parts leftover from the Storm. He's since updated the car a few times, but he ran low 10's with the same turbo he ran on the Storm.

You just have to be open-minded...

It doesn't cost anymore and prolly cost less...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoogieDownBrown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
thats like having a 1 runner in a 40yd dash using steriods and dominating every track event(until he got caught) but do you think that is fair for all the other track athletes. Thats when rules have to come into play to make it a level playing feild and make it interesting for everyone else.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

actually, its more like all the other runners in the 40yd dash are just plain slower than the one guy. would it make sense to say "okay you're faster, so you cant run"?

I think a lot of the problem is that alot of racers in SFWD think that they need to have 1000hp and go out there and break their axles or tranny every other run, meanwhile theres guys in brackets and all motor running very quick times, and consequtively.

bottom line? get more seat time. get to know the car. make the car run faster by quicker 60' times, better reactions, better shifting and pedal work, dont just add more boost and expect it to overcome the lack of driving ability.

I do see the point though, that if one guy is just miles above the competition, he should step up to the next class, but if its already in pro, then its time to cut the crying and step it up yourself. PRO = if you cant run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoogieDownBrown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Be honest with yourself.....how fun is it to watch the same car win every race every weekend.As a fan...it sux cause then they would say why spend the money to go to a race when you already know who is gonna win in each event.

thats like having a 1 runner in a 40yd dash using steriods and dominating every track event(until he got caught) but do you think that is fair for all the other track athletes. Thats when rules have to come into play to make it a level playing feild and make it interesting for everyone else.

I'm sure everyone that races works their butt off to make their car as fast as "they can". mentally and financially. so i saw its only fair to make it as even as possible.

Everyone says that "people need to step up"....well why can't the faster guys "step up " to the next fastest class if they are going so much faster than everyone else in a class. Thats not how i feel but just saying.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your from MD you should know as I do that’s usually Jason Hunt (ie same guy winning) for most people, but I am not going to whine, just try and catch him. Used to hang out back in the day with him in GB and he always nodes when we are at the track—but I think he still does not remember my name-hehe. If you build a car for a class why should you step up to a class you did not build your car for. Your athlete analogy has someone cheating, if someones-cheating thats wrong, but if the rule books says what you are doing is fine then everyone has to deal with that and they could have done it as well. I am sure we can agree everyone does work their butts off, but the simple fact is the worlds not fair some people work at shops and have lifts and nice tools available some people are working in the dirt with hand tools. And some people have to make sacrifices to race and some make 100k a year doing nothing at work but playing pass the buck.-nothing is fair or level—level is heres the rules, build it to spec if your not fast enough figure out a way to get faster, not lets penalize the fast guys for bringing innovation and thought into the sport. And Maryland usually see’s the same people winning most races and we have some of the highest turn outs for most events.