nightlife88

hey everybody i have a 1986 crx si and i recently bought a 1.6 zc and waiting for a transmission and turbo. any way my question is if i run 5 to 10 pounds of boost (on stock internals ) will i need a stronger fuel pump or is the stock si pump ok. also the turbo is of ebay a t3/t40e turbo and people have been saying i might need a oil pressure regulator because the new engine puts out to much pressure is that true?

allnaturalb16

what up man...
for tuning purposes you should invest in another fuel pump.
the oil pressure regulator i am not sure about that would be a good question for the forced induction forum.

and Moses Lake eh!?
i though everyone out there had muscle cars, all domestics?
at least thats how it seemed when I lived in Soap Lake.
i was the only honda guy

DarksydeDragun

Yury! dude, get your *** a trans. so we can get the thing in the damn car!

nightlife88

thanks man but yeah there is about 15 decent honda and acuras and every time i go to the drag in royalcity everybodys got one up on me so for next year im doin the swap and turbo

E-AT_me

dude, your oil pressure will be fine. i've never heard of someone needing to regulate it through the turbo.

as far as fuel goes, the stock pump should be ok for 5 psi for a while as long as you get an adjustable FPR and a gauge.

cbstd

A "real" ZC? From Japan? With "ZC" stamped in the block? Or are you confusing it with a D16A1 from an Integra? If it is a real ZC you may not want to screw up a really nice, rare engine with a turbo. If you go ITB, you can make plenty of power and have an engine that will live forever. Plus a real ZC has a compression ratio that is higher than you would want to use with a turbo.

Stock bottom ends that get a turbo added to them live short, exciting lives. 5psi or so of boost will survive in a stock Honda bottom end, the problem comes when you need "more."

If you go turbo, you will want to change to OBD1 which will require an adpater to make the newer distributor fit on your old engine.

good luck,

Scott

DarksydeDragun

yeah, his motor is stamped ZC. and he's talking about an oil restrictor in the feed line to the turbo to drop the oil pressure to keep from blowing out the shaft seals.

Edit: couple pics. hope you don't mind Yury!

E-AT_me

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DarksydeDragun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, his motor is stamped ZC. and he's talking about an oil restrictor in the feed line to the turbo to drop the oil pressure to keep from blowing out the shaft seals.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

never heard of it. even on new hondas..

nightlife88

hey scott yeah its the real engine its the brown top and got it for about 700 dollars with no tranny or ecu but anywhays i see your profile pic is ew4 and i actually sold mine yesterday for 100 bucks oh my buddy posted those pics for me thanks josh. ok later scott

cbstd

Wow, a real ZC.

That is not a good candidate for turbo because it comes from the factory with a pretty high compression ratio (about 10:1). Hang a set of side drafts on that engine and you will be making very close to 200hp without the hassle of turbo and you will not need the ECU.

Scott

86si

a stock internal zc or d16a1 can handle alot. tuning is the biggest factor in reliability. compression @ 10-1 is not a big deal and any tuner will tell u that. i ran 10lbs for a very long time and the motor still ran strong when i pulled it to upgrade the internals. a fuel pump is a must. MSD sells a realy nice and inexpensive inline pump and its good to like 500hp. obd 1 is not a must but u have alot more tuning capabilites hondata/neptune/chrome etc... if u stick with obd 0 u can convert to 88 electronics and run zdyne/turboedit etc.. it really depends on how much money u want to spend. also just run a -3 oil feed and u will have no issues with too much oil pressure

cbstd

{sigh} OK, throw a turbo on it. Blow a rod through the block, waste a perfectly good ZC.

OBD1 is a must, you will need to make an adapter to make a OBD1 distributor fit on that head.

For all the hassle of making a turbo work, all you need to do is slap on a set of sidedrafts and you will be making plenty of HP in an engien that will live forever.

But instead you want to create a turbo that will live a short and exciting life.

{sniff}

It seems like such a waste.

Scott

blackmugensivic

Are you talking about putting a set of sidedraft carbs on this motor? In case you didn't get it already the motor and his car are fuel injected. and he's not going to "waste" a perfectly good motor by turboing it, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to this stuff, there are guys on this site with 300-400 whp hondas that are daily driven, and have been for a long time

cbstd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackmugensivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there are guys on this site with 300-400 whp hondas that are daily driven, and have been for a long time</TD></TR></TABLE>

Lots of guys talk about their DD turbos. But honestly, have you ever seen one of them? Have you ever driven a home made turbo? There is not arguement that a turbo will make a ton of power... when it is running right.

Turbos live a short, exciting life. And then they throw a rod through the block.

A set of Mikunis, or even better, Webbers takes the cork out of the bottle and allows Hondas to breathe and make serious power without the hassle and plumbing of a turbo. And you can ditch all the wiring and plumbing of FI because you will not need it with sidedrafts.

Yes, Fuel Injection is a lot easier to live with and can be tuned for good power. But the breathing possiblities of side drafts can not be argued with.

What are the downside of sidedrafts? They are a bitch to balance and keep properly jetted for altitude and weather. But once you have them "on" they provide linear power though out the rpm band. No turbo lag with sidedrafts.

Think outside the box, there are alternative to turbos.

Scott

86si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Lots of guys talk about their DD turbos. But honestly, have you ever seen one of them? Have you ever driven a home made turbo? There is not arguement that a turbo will make a ton of power... when it is running right.

Turbos live a short, exciting life. And then they throw a rod through the block.

A set of Mikunis, or even better, Webbers takes the cork out of the bottle and allows Hondas to breathe and make serious power without the hassle and plumbing of a turbo. And you can ditch all the wiring and plumbing of FI because you will not need it with sidedrafts.

Yes, Fuel Injection is a lot easier to live with and can be tuned for good power. But the breathing possiblities of side drafts can not be argued with.

What are the downside of sidedrafts? They are a bitch to balance and keep properly jetted for altitude and weather. But once you have them "on" they provide linear power though out the rpm band. No turbo lag with sidedrafts.

Think outside the box, there are alternative to turbos.

Scott
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turbo lag? are u kidding. u obviously have never driven a honda with a properly sized turbo. as far as side drafts being more reliable, the only way to make a noticeable gain with them is with good compression and a set of cams. then your gonna have to rev the **** out of it to make the power. there goes the long lived NA motor that dropped a valve or kicked a rod because it was revved to 9k constantly.

we can argue all day but if u want a reliable setup it can be had with a turbo as long as its done right

cbstd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 86si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the only way to make a noticeable gain with them is with good compression and a set of cams. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The real ZC comes with both of those.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 86si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then your gonna have to rev the **** out of it to make the power. there goes the long lived NA motor that dropped a valve or kicked a rod because it was revved to 9k constantly.</TD></TR></TABLE>

True, but if you stick to the redline that the ZC cams were designed with, there is no reason to do something stupid like that. The bottom end of a Honda is as strong as nay on the market... up to the designed redline. You go past that and you are asking for trouble. It is a simple concept that seems to elude many people.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 86si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we can argue all day but if u want a reliable setup it can be had with a turbo as long as its done right </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ah ha! "done right" is the opperative statement. How hard is it to 'do it right?" IMHO it is not as easy as many internet gadflies would have you believe. There is a definate learning curve involved that gets shortened if you have access to a dyno. But for the average guy doing it for the first time in his garage with help from internet "experts," I would say the failure rate is pretty high.

BTW- I enjoy arguing

Look, it is his project. His time and money. He should enjoy. But the ZC with its high compression is not the obvious place to start to build a turbo motor. I would start with a regular D-series block and build the bottom end specifically for a turbo engine. In the long run, he will be a lot happier.

Scott

86si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cbstd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The real ZC comes with both of those.

True, but if you stick to the redline that the ZC cams were designed with, there is no reason to do something stupid like that. The bottom end of a Honda is as strong as nay on the market... up to the designed redline. You go past that and you are asking for trouble. It is a simple concept that seems to elude many people.

Ah ha! "done right" is the opperative statement. How hard is it to 'do it right?" IMHO it is not as easy as many internet gadflies would have you believe. There is a definate learning curve involved that gets shortened if you have access to a dyno. But for the average guy doing it for the first time in his garage with help from internet "experts," I would say the failure rate is pretty high.

BTW- I enjoy arguing

Look, it is his project. His time and money. He should enjoy. But the ZC with its high compression is not the obvious place to start to build a turbo motor. I would start with a regular D-series block and build the bottom end specifically for a turbo engine. In the long run, he will be a lot happier.

Scott</TD></TR></TABLE>
telling the average guy to bolt up a set of webbers and your done is IMO is just as difficult a task as plumbing and setting up a turbo.

10-1 is not too high! the right amount of boost with good tuning and its a great combo. btw the cams are not aggressive enough in a zc to compliment a set of side drafts. if he does go with the webbers i would get the comp. up to atleast 11-1 and grab a set of good cams.

85ZC

Properly tuning a carb to reach is max potential is just as difficult as tuning a turbo system. A ZC can be fine on boost if tuned properly, as a carbed would be tuned. The Honda Integra/Quint from Japan had a DOHC carbed engine so if you do want to carb it try Strong for Honda for a manifold. As far a s turbo, check the ZC resource boards for specific ZC info. If you're gonna boost it, do it right. Spend the money now rather than later. The 85-87 ZCs had thicker meatier rods than the later ones, but I don't know if the thinner rods were superior metal wise.

nightlife88

here are some pics of my zc after cleaning it up alittle

nightlife88

well i kinda gettin scared to do this turbo on the engine if all these problems are commin up. i could get the thing tuned out of town if i do the turbo or im thinkin about a skunk 2 intake manifold and 60 mm throtle body and no turbo i just dont know if i want to risk damaging the engine. this crx is only driven on the weekends and to the drag stip a couple times in the summer so if i turbo the thing it might not be to bad. anyway im guna do some research and try to get out of this stand still thanks for the info

cbstd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightlife88 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> i could get the thing tuned out of town if i do the turbo</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you need help to tune a turbo? This is evidence that you do not know what you are doing and are going to screw up this engine if you try to hang a turbo on it.

Do yourself a favor, stick to NA. It is a lot easier to make work right. If you invest your money in head work and more induction you will be rewarded with an engine that will make plenty of power across the rpm band.

Scott

DarksydeDragun

you're kidding me right? how many people do you know that can tune their own cars? do you have a dyno in your garage? do you tune your own car? between yury(nightlife88), joel(blackmugensivic), and myself we have more than enough know-how to build this motor, but we're not stupid enough to try to street tune it. we have a shop about an hour away that tunes for $350. unlimited pulls, etc. they do it until it's done. making power is all about how efficiently you can get the air/fuel mixture in, burnt, and out of the combustion chamber. blowing it in (i.e. turbo or supercharger) is a bit more effective than trying to suck it in (i.e. N/A) don't you think?

your comment is evidence that you really don't know what you're talking about.

Do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor, and find a different thread to haunt.

cbstd

Let's not make personal attacks, it is so juvenile.

The JDM ZC in question is a high compression engine with an old school ignition and fuel management system. On those two counts it is unsuited for use as a turbo engine. Combined with the need to rebuild the bottom end for longevity and the plumbing hassles, building a home made turbo that will live to tell the tale is not as easy as you claim. And you never mention the costs associated with doing the job "right."

What is easy, effective and relatively inexpensive to do is to allow the D-series head to breathe better with more NA induction. If the JDM ZC started life at ~130hp, you can figure an easy 30-40% more hp from simple and proven performance enhancements.

Anybody can build a handgrenade of a turbo that will throw an impressive dyno chart. It is more of a challenge for the average home builder to make a turbo that will give any kind of servicable life without the use of modern engine management tools.

Rather than trying to beat the last once of performance out of this rare and desireable engine, consider building to its fullest designed potential... without a turbo.

Scott

E-AT_me

man, i love scott..

anyways, motor cleaned up well. whatever you do, take your time and do it right. i'm an NA guy myself, don't use blowdriers for my hair, why would i use one for my car. but i don't wear bowties and neither should my trucks, but that's a whole different argument for another day.

it does look good..

and in case anyone cares, cbstd does know what he's talking about. so does 86Si though. both are very knowledgeable in there "field".

nightlife88

the thing is i want to use 5 to 10 psi and no more ill be happy with 5 psi if i need to. i really want a turbo but i dont want it to damage the engine so ill probably stay at 5 pounds. what ill probably do is run it na first inj. , headers, and intake and when the time is right ill do the turbo ..... t3/t4oe turbo and manifold $290 ...inj venom $278 ...inline fuel pump???....skunk 2 intake manifold and throttle body $600....intercooler and piping wastegate and blowoff valve $250...ebay rocks...now if i get all that stuff and stay at 5 psi wont i be safe without tunning