subs? in car or trunk?
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,253
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From: south, jersey, us
Re: (userdead626)
in response to yours, just take your time, think it out well, i used 1/4 inch mdf, and its wrapped in white vinyl...simple materials, if you use it correctly it'll turn out great.
cant stress it enough, just take your time, stare at your trunk for like an hour, envision what you want, draw it out on paper...mine was very easy, if you need more info lemme know ill do a breakdown
cant stress it enough, just take your time, stare at your trunk for like an hour, envision what you want, draw it out on paper...mine was very easy, if you need more info lemme know ill do a breakdown
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 434
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From: Livermore, CA, USA
Re: (DaZman69)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaZman69 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A bandpass enclosure is going to sound the loudest to the human ear inside your car. They sound like ****, i've never heard one that sounds good....a ported enclosure is where port tuning is really important. A sealed is the loudest, but a bandpass is going to be louder with X wattage, because they are more effecient.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You seem to be blurring perceived loudness with measured loudness... A small, sealed box is going to produce the highest measured output. Bandpass, and ported boxes are just easier to tune to the resonant frequencies of the human skull which makes them seem the loudest. They are only louder at lower frequencies given the same subs/amp.
Alot if this is mute(pun intended) since the original poster listens to rock not rap but, it is extremely possible to get good results from a bandpass as other posters have indicated. And it will likely lead to less rattling without going through all the dynomat work. If you really understand and think through the physics of ported, and bandpass designs, there is no reason why you can't get better results from a bandpass. I made a great box with a Polk 12" and aeroports that was the envy of all my friends at CC until my car was stolen.
My friend had a JL 12" in a ported box in his Ranger. He loved to brag about how much better it was than my sealed MTX setup. I smoked him by 20 dB at the dB drag event!
You seem to be blurring perceived loudness with measured loudness... A small, sealed box is going to produce the highest measured output. Bandpass, and ported boxes are just easier to tune to the resonant frequencies of the human skull which makes them seem the loudest. They are only louder at lower frequencies given the same subs/amp.
Alot if this is mute(pun intended) since the original poster listens to rock not rap but, it is extremely possible to get good results from a bandpass as other posters have indicated. And it will likely lead to less rattling without going through all the dynomat work. If you really understand and think through the physics of ported, and bandpass designs, there is no reason why you can't get better results from a bandpass. I made a great box with a Polk 12" and aeroports that was the envy of all my friends at CC until my car was stolen.
My friend had a JL 12" in a ported box in his Ranger. He loved to brag about how much better it was than my sealed MTX setup. I smoked him by 20 dB at the dB drag event!
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 509
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From: Irvine, CA, USA
Re:
This thread is ridiculous...
Don't misinform people, please. I'm quite certain that the few experienced people on this forum will agree with almost everything I have to say:
Sealed - Easy to get this alignment right. The main thing to consider is the Qtc; if unsure, then 0.707 is as neutral as can be.
Infinite Baffle and Aperiodic Membrane - Install will be a complete Pain in the ***. But this can sound amazing as well. These designs will require a complete separation of airspaces in order to be effective.
Ported and Passive Radiator - Much more difficult than sealed, but it can sound just as good as sealed (though technically the group delay will be higher = inaudible difference). In a car, though, it probably won't be ideal because of the cabin-gain exhibited by enclosed spaces. Ported is a better match for Home theater. Ported enclosures generally are LOUDER than sealed.
Bandpass - Contrary to popular belief, a properly designed bandpass enclosure can also sound good. They are more efficient and LOUDER than ported.
Vented designs are more sensitive to misaligned enclosure specifications corresponding to Speaker Parameters. T/S = Thiele/Small Parameters = LEARN THESE if you want to learn the most basic damned framework for enclosure design/theory. A speaker modeling program is useful in this case. YES - I'm saying that each speaker should be modeled for a corresponding enclosure.
Because of reduced excursion in vented designs, the speaker is more within its limits and generally exhibits slightly lower distortion in the lower octaves.
A ported enclosure will exhibit a steep rolloff below its tuning frequency; it should not play too far below this point. A bandpass enclosure has this rolloff on the top-end as well. Sealed, aperiodic, Infinite baffle enclosures can play LOW (below 20hz no problem).
Because these vented designs amplify the backwave, they have greater efficiency. There are designs made to dampen and eliminate the backwave:
Transmission Line: A primarily BRITISH style enclosure which attempts to do just that. Not too efficient, and the math behind it is still in nascency, but I think this design has great merit.
SPL competitions: Sealed enclosures do not have a place here. The best competitors design a box to isolate a frequency at about 70-75hz generally. A sealed enclosure would be IDIOTIC in this case. Their enclosures are sometimes kept a secret...that's how involved this is ---> imagine catacombs and caverns...ahah
[Internal designs vary]
and Finally: If subs are mounted in the trunk, it is often beneficial to fire them toward the rear, and to mount them actually close to the rear wall. This is, in large part, to synchronize the reflected wave with the original wave. Does this work? Well - somewhat.
Whether or not to vent the bass into the cabin from the trunk: Try it and see...that's all I can say. Generally I'd say go for it.
Placing subs in the cabin: If you do, then the install will probably be more involved. I know that in all systems I've designed, (just on paper) I've tried to separate the airspace from the trunk/cabin in a system such as this. I've also thought about where the reflection may be coming from, and how I can either synchronise it or stop it. There are these considerations (which some think are moot for BASS), and of course considerations of practicality...do what you can.
ok - done for now.
Don't misinform people, please. I'm quite certain that the few experienced people on this forum will agree with almost everything I have to say:
Sealed - Easy to get this alignment right. The main thing to consider is the Qtc; if unsure, then 0.707 is as neutral as can be.
Infinite Baffle and Aperiodic Membrane - Install will be a complete Pain in the ***. But this can sound amazing as well. These designs will require a complete separation of airspaces in order to be effective.
Ported and Passive Radiator - Much more difficult than sealed, but it can sound just as good as sealed (though technically the group delay will be higher = inaudible difference). In a car, though, it probably won't be ideal because of the cabin-gain exhibited by enclosed spaces. Ported is a better match for Home theater. Ported enclosures generally are LOUDER than sealed.
Bandpass - Contrary to popular belief, a properly designed bandpass enclosure can also sound good. They are more efficient and LOUDER than ported.
Vented designs are more sensitive to misaligned enclosure specifications corresponding to Speaker Parameters. T/S = Thiele/Small Parameters = LEARN THESE if you want to learn the most basic damned framework for enclosure design/theory. A speaker modeling program is useful in this case. YES - I'm saying that each speaker should be modeled for a corresponding enclosure.
Because of reduced excursion in vented designs, the speaker is more within its limits and generally exhibits slightly lower distortion in the lower octaves.
A ported enclosure will exhibit a steep rolloff below its tuning frequency; it should not play too far below this point. A bandpass enclosure has this rolloff on the top-end as well. Sealed, aperiodic, Infinite baffle enclosures can play LOW (below 20hz no problem).
Because these vented designs amplify the backwave, they have greater efficiency. There are designs made to dampen and eliminate the backwave:
Transmission Line: A primarily BRITISH style enclosure which attempts to do just that. Not too efficient, and the math behind it is still in nascency, but I think this design has great merit.
SPL competitions: Sealed enclosures do not have a place here. The best competitors design a box to isolate a frequency at about 70-75hz generally. A sealed enclosure would be IDIOTIC in this case. Their enclosures are sometimes kept a secret...that's how involved this is ---> imagine catacombs and caverns...ahah
[Internal designs vary]and Finally: If subs are mounted in the trunk, it is often beneficial to fire them toward the rear, and to mount them actually close to the rear wall. This is, in large part, to synchronize the reflected wave with the original wave. Does this work? Well - somewhat.
Whether or not to vent the bass into the cabin from the trunk: Try it and see...that's all I can say. Generally I'd say go for it.
Placing subs in the cabin: If you do, then the install will probably be more involved. I know that in all systems I've designed, (just on paper) I've tried to separate the airspace from the trunk/cabin in a system such as this. I've also thought about where the reflection may be coming from, and how I can either synchronise it or stop it. There are these considerations (which some think are moot for BASS), and of course considerations of practicality...do what you can.
ok - done for now.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: Ijamsville, Maryland, USA
Re: (DaZman69)
All of this is quite involved with all the mathmatics and what not. me as well am a circuit city installer. Our everyday drivers wont get into the details they just care how it sounds. i have found that subs in the cabin overpower anykind of thought process in your head and as well as your midrange and treble from ur speakers. keep it in the trunk. dynomat license plate and trunk lid if this is to pricey u can also use the thick truck bedliner which sometimes is a spray or another kind of aplication either or works but with 2 10's there cant be all that much rattle. some rattle u cant rid of either. i have 2 12 inch type e's and some rattle just wont give. so u settle with maybe my subs are just way to loud lol and it makes metal rattle. 
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
From: Boston, Ma, USA
Re: subs? in car or trunk? (n0 iNTegRiTY)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by n0 iNTegRiTY »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just took my back seats out.... sounds great! 
</TD></TR></TABLE>coulda jus folded em down
</TD></TR></TABLE>coulda jus folded em down
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 1
From: Im outside your window
Re: subs? in car or trunk? (EXCoupe03)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EXCoupe03 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">coulda jus folded em down </TD></TR></TABLE>
Eh... I prefer drastic measures to logic
</TD></TR></TABLE>Eh... I prefer drastic measures to logic
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